2001 04 10 PC Minutes MINUTES
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
A regular meeting held at the La Quinta City Hall
78-495 Calle Tampico, La Quinta, CA
April 10, 2001' 7:00 P.M.
I. 'CALL TO ORDER
A. This meeting of the Planning Commission was called to order at 7:00
p.m. by Chairman Robbins who asked Commissioner Butler to lead the
flag salute.
B. Present: Commissioners Jacques AbelS, Richard Butler, Tom Kirk, Robert
Tyler, and Chairman Steve Robbins.
C. Staff present: Assistant City Attorney John Ramirez, Planning Manager
Christine di Iorio, Senior Engineer Steve Speer, Principal Planner Stan
Sawa, and Executive Secretary Betty Sawyer.
II. PUBLIC COMMENT: None
III. CONFIRMATION OF THE AGENDA: Confirmed.
IV. CONSENT ITEMS:
A. Chairman Robbins asked if there were any corrections to the Minutes of .
March 27, 2001. Commissioner Tyler asked that Page 9, Item #10 be
corrected to read, "...since the traffic information..."; Page 11 Item #23
he referenced Washington Street not Highway 111; and Page 18, Item
#7 "...plan of the previous approved tract...". There being no further
corrections, it was moved and seconded by Commissioners Abels/Tyler
to approve the minutes as corrected. Unanimously approved.
B. Department Report: None.
V. PRESENTATIONS: None.
VI. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
A. Conditional Use Permit 2001-057 and Site Development Permit 2001-
695; a request of USA Petroleum Corporation for review of use and
development plans for a gasoline facility, convenience market and
automated tunnel car wash to be located at northwest corner of Highway
111 and Dune Palms Road, within Specific Plan 99-036 (La Quinta
Corporate Center).
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Planning Commission Minutes
April 10, 2001
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1. Chairman Robbins opened the public hearing and asked for the
staff report. Principal Planner Stan Sawa presented the
information contained in the staff report, a copy of which is on file
in the Community Development Department.
2. Chairman Robbins asked if there were any questions of staff.
CommisSioner Tyler asked staff to verify that no changes were
made to the previously approved plan. Staff clarified there were
design modifications requested as part of the conditions of
approval and the applicant has made those changes. Commissioner
Tyler asked if the size and placement of the flagpole had been
determined. Staff stated there was a condition requiring them to
keep the pole at 22 feet in the front setback as proposed.
Commissioner Tyler asked why more turf was being requested by
staff.. Staff explained it was to be in conformance with the
Highway 111 Design' Guidelines to provide more of a mix of the
ground cover and turf. Commissioner Tyler questioned Condition
#11 and #42.A and the inconsistencies regarding shared
driveways on Highway 111 and Dune Palms Road, that had not -
been resolved. Senior Engineer Steve Speer stated they should
indicates a shared driveway on Dune Palms Road and staff would
make that correction to be consistent. Commissioner Tyler asked
when the sign program would be submitted. Staff stated it would
be approved by staff.
3. Chairman Robbins questioned the height of the tower as it
appeared to be lower than previously approved. Staff clarified it
was the same height as initially proposed.
4. There being no further questions of staff, Chairman Robbins asked
if the applicant would like to address the Commission. Mr. Mark
Mcllvain, representing USA Petroleum, stated he agreed with the
recommendations and was available to answer any questions.
5. Commissioner Abels asked when they would begin construction.
Mr. Mcllvain stated they hoped to start within the month.
6. Chairman Robbins asked if there was any other public comment on
this project. There being no further public comment, Chairman
Robbins closed the public participation portion of the hearing and
asked if there was any Commission discussion.
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7. There being no further discussion, it was moved and seconded by
Commissioners Abels/Tyler to adopt Planning Commission
Resolution 2001-046 approving Conditional Use Permit 2001-057,
as recommend
ROLL CALL: AYES: Commissioners Abels, Butler, Kirk, Tyler, and
-' Chairman Robbins. NOES: None. ABSENT: None.
ABSTAIN: None.
8. It was moved and seconded by Commissioners Abels/Butler to
adopt Planning Commission Resolution 2001-047 approving Site
Development Permit 2001-695, as recommended.
ROLL CALL: AYES: Commissioners Abels, Butler, Kirk, Tyler, and
Chairman Robbins. NOES: None. ABSENT: None.
ABSTAIN: None.
C. Environmental Assessment 94-287 Addendum. Specific Plan 94-02.5
Amendment #1, Conditional Use Permit 99-047, and Tentative Parcel
Map 28617; a request of Agiotage Limited/Mainiero, Smith and
Associates for Certification of an Environmental Impact Report
Addendum allowing a new access road for an approved master planned
residential community of 277 hours; Development of a private road on a
hillside slope exceeding 20 percent; Amend the Specific Plan allowing a
3,000 foot long private access road along the north side of a 330.70
acre property to serve ten custom lots; and a Tentative Parcel Map
subdividing 330.70 acres into four parcels and other lettered street lots
located at the bisection of the future Jefferson Street, approximately one
half mile south of Avenue 58.
1. Commissioner Tyler asked Assistant City Attorney Ramirez that
since they had just been handed this multi-page document
pertaining to this project and somehow they were to absorb it and
let it enter their thinking as they make a determination on this
project, did they have to acknowledge the contents. He has
objected previously and is objecting again to these 11th hour
submittals and his question are.' a) do they have consider at this
late entry; and b) if they do need to consider it, can they'continue
it to allow adequate time to consider it. Assistant City Attorney
Ramirez stated staff and his office have had time to review the
letter and digest its contents and he will have comments on this
letter during the hearing process. They will provide the
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Commission with an assessment of the letter as well as the
impact, or reported impact, on the previously adopted EIR and
Addendum before the Commission. The Commission does have
to consider it at this late stage as it has been provided prior to the
Planning Commission meeting. Commissioner Tyler stated that
may be well and good but staff and the Attorney's office are not
the ones voting on the project. The Commissioners are and they
have not had the time to digest its contents. Assistant City
Attorney Ramirez stated he understood this and certainly it was
not an ideal situation. Staff always encourages early participation
but it is not always the case and the only thing staff can do is help
the Commission understand the contents and impact of the
contents. Commissioner Tyler stated he appreciated the advice,
but his immediate reaction is to put it aside and dwell only on the
information that was given to him in his agenda packet.
2. Chairman Robbins stated that sometimes the purpose of a late
entry is to get the Commission to postpone their decision.
Assistant City Attorney Ramirez stated the Commission could ask -
Mr. Hogan of the Center for Biological Diversity, who wrote the
letter, why it was so late.
3. Commissioner Butler stated he concurred with Commissioner
Tyler's comments and strongly resented the letter being presented
at the last hour. If they have the ability to produce a document
such as this they also have the ability to get it to the City in a
timely for them to review it and not have to rely on staff to read
and digest it for them. As he is voting on this tonight, he agrees
with Commissioner Tyler, that he would reject the document
based on the basis that he has never had the opportunity to even
read it, although he recognizes that is nothing they can deal with
at this meeting. He would like them to know if it happens again,
don't come.
4. Commissioner Kirk stated he does not completely agree with his
colleagues as he has been on the other end and often, and he is
sure the Commission will hear from Mr. Hogan, and it is one
mitigating factor, that they don't just have a letter but also have
a person testifying and addressing the issues. Sometimes you do
_
not have the time to prepare for public hearings and there may be
factors the Commission is unaware of. It would be nice to receive .
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notices in advance. However, the law is very clear on this issue.
If it is submitted a minute before the hearing it is required that the
Commission address and considered the contents during the
hearing process. Therefore, he would strongly suggest the
Commission not reject it out of hand.
5. Commissioner Butler stated he did not disagree with what
Commissioner Kirk stated. What he does disagree with is the
opportunity to absorb the contents himself and he does understand
that late arrivals do create more interest.
6. Commissioner Kirk stated he concurred and it would be nice to
have the letter in advance, but again, the Commission is obligated
under the law to consider everything presented. Assistant City
Attorney Ramirez, stated that as the Commission goes through the
staff report, staff and the City Attorney's office is of the view that
the letter does not impact, the Addendum at all which obviously
the Commission has had time to review.
7. Chairman Robbins opened the public hearing and asked for the
staff report. Planning Manager Christine di Iorio presented the
information contained in the staff report, a copy of which is on file
in the Community Development Department.
8. Chairman Robbins asked if there were any questions of staff.
Commissioner Butler asked staff if this area was part of the area
where the Commission had taken a field trip. Staff stated Yes and
showed the area on the map.
9. Commissioner Kirk asked where the grades were on the proposed
roadway and where the 20% slope began and ended. Senior
Engineer Steve Speer indicated on the map, the location where the
road would cut into the toe of slope. Commissioner Kirk asked if
the City had permitted road cuts in this type of slope. Staff stated
something similar at the Tradition, but did not cross a ridge line.
We have shaved across the face of slopes in various locations, the
Point Happy project is the most recent. Commissioner Kirk asked
if the right of way asphalt was noted by the grey on the map.
Staff stated yes and explained the road.
10. Commissioner Butler asked staff to clarify that this road was being
requested because they could not gain access through the Quarry.
Senior Engineer Steve Speer explained there were two issues in
regard to the Quarry. First was a vacation of right-of-way.
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Officially this property had had accessed the street right of way.
There were no street .improvements. Adams Street right of way
was west of this location and Avenue 55 use to extend across the
north side of the Quarry. As a condition of vacating that right of
way and taking away access to the Green property, the Quarry is
obligated to enter into an agreement with this property to provide
access. However, the two property owners have never been able
to come to terms on what the cost sharing would be. Second,
technically the Quarry is in default. They have never recorded the
street vacation. When the City approved the final tract map for.
the Quarry they were again conditioned to provide access and it
was to be mutually agreed upon between the two parties. They
do have their map, but the street vacation has never been officially
recorded and therefore, officially there is still street right of way at
the Quarry passing through their golf course and several lots.
1 1. Commissioner Kirk asked staff to explain what "default" means and
why it occurred. Staff stated that when a street right of way is
vacated, the City approves the concept with conditions and the
developer has to satisfy the conditions before they have a final
project. In this instance, the right of way is not considered
vacated until it is recorded. The Quarry has never recorded the
street vacation because they have never perfected the requirement
of providing access to the property that will be denied access.
1 2. Commissioner Abels asked if there was any time line to complete
the recording. Staff stated there was no timeline placed on them
to complete the requirements.
1 3. Commissioner Tyler asked if the City had the ability to force the
Quarry road so a road would not have to be constructed through
the hill. Staff.stated this may be the opportunity to do that.
1 4. Commissioner Kirk asked if there was an opportunity to condition
the Quarry which is where the problem lies. Staff stated the issue
before the. Commission is the road which is the applicant's
alternative as a result of not being able to reach a solution with the
Quarry. This issue of the Quarry denying access to the Green
property has come up time and time again. Staff has spoken with
the attorney for Mr. Green where the Quarry was denying access
to real estate people to show the property whereas before the
Quarry allowed this.
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1 5. Commissioner Tyler asked if this application of the road opened
the whole Environmental Assessment process. ASsistant City
Attorney John Ramirez stated that to the extent the Commission
was taking about potential impacts to habitat and the like, his
answer would be no. It would not open up the conclusions drawn
on the EIR or the Addendum. Commissioner Tyler stated the road
only encompasses a small portion of the project. Is that what they ·
are to limit their focus to. Assistant City Attorney John Ramirez
stated that to the extent the Addendum and project before the
Commission is this road, not the alternative right of way or the
condition that was imposed on the Quarry. Commissioner Tyler
asked if any issue other than the road was open for discussion at
this time. Assistant City Attorney John Ramirez stated no, but as
issues are discussed he can clarify whether or not it pertains to
this application.
1 6. Commissioner Kirk asked, somewhat in jest if there was anything
to stop someone from walking on that public right of way for
-- Avenue 58 even though it was within the Quarry. Staff stated the
public right of way exists, but he is sure someone would try to
stop anyone from entering. Commissioner Kirk asked legal counsel
if this was possible. Assistant City'Attorney John Ramirez stated
it was a question of right versus practicality. Certainly as a public
right of way you would have every legal right to be on that public
right of way, but obviously'to the extent there are physical barriers
that would be a practical impediment.
17. Ms. Saundra Jacobs, SFC Consultants, gave a presentation on the
EIR Addendum prepared for this project.
18. Chairman Robbins asked if the Commission denied the Addendum,
it would only deny the road to the ten lots but the remainder of
the project that was previously approved could proceed. Ms.
Jacobs stated that was her understanding.
1 9. Commissioner Kirk questioned the Army Corp nation-wide permit
process of a tenth of an acre. Ms. Jacobs stated that was correct
based on their engineering calculations. Commissioner Kirk asked
staff if they have had any conversations with the Corps regarding
this project. Ms. Jacobs stated not with the Corps directly.
However, as it moves through the process and should the
applicant need a streambed alteration permit, the Corps will be
consulted on that process and if the Corps decides it is more than
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a tenth of an acre based on their analysis, then there will need to
be a modification in the road alignment or another alternative.
Commissioner Kirk asked based on the Supreme Court's action,
does staff believe the Corps has jurisdiction over this project. Ms.
Jacobs stated that if they find that there is a blueline stream on
the property, they will need to do a wetland analysis or wetlands
delineation to decide that and then the Corps would review that
application for a nation wide permit. Commissioner Kirk asked if
this was a navigable body of water. Ms. Jacob stated it was a
blueline on the U.S.G.A. map. Commissioner Kirk asked if staff
was familiar with the U. S. Supreme case. Ms. Jacobs stated she
was not. Commissioner Kirk stated it was his understanding that
there had been some changes in Corps policy. Has staff or legal
counsel had any interaction with them regarding this. Assistant
City Attorney John Ramirez stated he is aware of the case cited,
but is not aware of any Corps policy changes in response to the
case. He would argue that this was a case where they lack
jurisdiction. Without knowing the Corps reaction to the case he
is somewhat limited on providing information as to where they
Stand on the issue. Commissioner Kirk stated this is only one of
the issues that the applicant may have many of. Ms. Jacobs
added it is the same streambed crossing that the Quarry crossed
when they developed.
20. Chairman Robbins asked if the applicant would like to address the
Commission. Mr. Marvin Roos, Director of Planning Services for
Mainiero Smith, engineer representing the project, stated they
were in agreement with most of the conditions. They would
prefer to have taken access through the Quarry, but it is difficult
to get two private parties to agree.
21. Commissioner Tyler stated this proposal is before them because no
agreement could be reached between the two private parties; has
everything possible been done in good faith to achieve this? Mr.
Roos stated Mr. Green's attorney has been diligently working on
this, but to no avail. They are before the Commission at this time
as one of the things they believe 'necessary to create an
atmosphere where they can reach a closure on this issue. They
need to be able to negotiate from a position of having some rights
as opposed to begging for rights. This is why they have asked for
the road. It can be done very sensitively. It is their hope to not do
the road, but if they have to, they are prepared to do so.
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22. Chairman Robbins asked if there was any other public comment.
Mr. Bill Morrow, representing the Quarry, stated they haVe been
in every one of the discussions with Mr. Green and Mr. Schlecker
over the last seven years and at no time has any proposal ever
been made by Mr. Green to him as to what they would or would
not do with regard to getting into their property. They are
perfectly amenable and agreeable to allowing that to occur as it
part of the agreement they reached in 1993, when they first
developed the property and that has not changed. As late as last
week he made the tenth, fifteenth, or twentieth proposal to Mr.
Green and he did not respond to it. So, at no time have they made
any contradiction, action, proposal, anything whatsoever to the
Quarry and they have done it over and over again. So I think the
conversation you are hearing from these folks is really coming out
of the side of their mouth because they are agreeable to doing
this. To run a road up here and change the City's hillside
ordinance and so forth, to satisfy their needs, I think strictly has
to do with money and they are not that difficult to deal with if
they will come up with a proposal. They have not .done so and he
has done so over and over again and have no comment back from
them. This has gone on for year after year after year. What the
Commission .is hearing is one side of the coin, but actual side of
the coin is that they will do anything that is necessary to make
this work and they do not believe this road is the proper answer.
They have stated they are not here for the purpose of building the
road, but or the purpose of negotiating with him and that should
not have been necessary, hasn't been necessary. If they make a
proposal, he will be glad to listen to it.
23. Mr. Bob Mainiero, Mainiero Smith and Associates representing
Agiotage, stated he too has attended four meetings in Palm Desert
with representatives of the Quarry and in his opinion there was
never an effort to negotiate in good faith. Each time they left the
meeting, with the conclusion was that there was going to be a
I'awsuit and Mr. Green did not want to pursue that avenue.
24. Mr. David Hogan, Center for Biological Diversity, offered an
apology for the late date of the letter. It was an honest mistake.
.... He had confused the date between the City Council hearing in May
with this meeting and he apologized for submitting it so late.
Obviously he would prefer they have the time to consider the
points they brought up. He would like to request time to rebuttal
to the City's attorney discussion after Mr. Hogan's presentation.
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Chairman Robbins stated that was not proper. He would be
allowed an opportunity to make comments and the City would
have theirs. Mr. Hogan stated his primary purpose in appearing is
to request the Commission deny certification of the Environmental
Impact Report Addendum. for the Green and to request of the
applicant submission of a subsequent EIR addressing new
information and changed circumstances regarding the Peninsular
Big Horn Sheep prior to reconsideration by this Commission and
City Council. Some of the point are that the project applicant
needs to prepare a subsequent EIR due to substantially changed
circumstances and the availability of new information. He will hit
on that information very quickly. That information includes
substantial decline in the Martinez Canyon ewe group of Big Horn
Sheep since consideration of this project in the original EIR. It also
includes a listing of the species as a Federally Endangered Species
by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Since listing there was the
formation of a recovery 'team which came up with what's known
as an "Essential Habitat Boundary" which includes the Green
property in its entirety. The term "essential" relates to basically all
habitat which is considered necessary for the survival and recovery
of the species. That is why the recovery team developed the term
and map that included essential habitat on the Green project as
well as obviously elsewhere throughout the range of the species.
The last point he would like to make on new information is that
there has been a major comprehensive study on the effects of
urbanization on Peninsula Big Horn Sheep produced by the Big
Horn Institute and that contains a lot of new data about the
effects, not only direct impacts from development, but the effects
from lighting, noise, landscaping, all these things basically called
edufacts on Big Horn Sheep populations and unfortunately are
negative. All this information, the decline of the ewe group,
decline of the Peninsula Big Horn Sheep numbers throughout the
species range, Federal listing and the urbanization study are clearly
changed circumstances. Federal listing of the Peninsula Big Horn
Sheep as an endangered species also triggered a mandatory finding
of significance not present during the CEQA review process.
According to the case law right now, regardless of what is on the
table tonight, the City has the obligation to consider any new
information relating to this project and go back and require a
subsequent EIR if that information has become available and has
he has said it has become available. The last point is that there
were many, many points made by the Department of Fish and
Game on this project back on when they commented back in
1995. They commented both on the draft EIR as well as the Final
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EIR and found there was significant flaws in those documents and
those documents did not respond adequately to those comments.
That is another reason they would ask that this be revisited today
Regarding the Corp jurisdiction issue, there has been no new
regulations in response to the Supreme Court decision. The Salton
Sea is a navigable body of water. This is a tributary to the Salton
Sea Clean Water Act which places Corp jurisdiction over all waters
of the U.S. which are navigable and tributaries to navigable waters
in the U.S. is his understanding. The Corp jurisdiction really has
nothing to do with CEQA responsibility here to go back and do a
subsequent Environmental Impact Report because they are
completely separate processes. Corp jurisdiction falls under the
Clean Water Act and this is a CEQA issue that is being considered
now. There was also the assertion made that mitigation addresses
all .the new information that has come up since 1995.
Unfortunately, as indicated by Fish and Game and in their
comment letter, there has never been any release of the specifics
of that mitigation. There is going to be what is called a "Habitat
Management Plan", but Fish and Game 'pointed out in their
comment letters, and he reiterates that tonight, that that plan was
never presented for public review and comment and without that
they do not know if that plan is going to be adequate to mitigate
impacts to the sheep and that is probably one of' the most
important reasons for revisiting this. Ultimately, this project can
proceed but it is going to be how the impacts of this project are
mitigated, especially those edge-effects and the way light,
increased human presents, as well as whether or not there is going
to be any compensation for the direct loss of habitat.
25. Commissioner Tyler stated there was an article in the local
newspaper stating how happy everyone was that the Big Horn
Sheep were alive and well and thriving and had more lambs this
season than ever before. How does that equate to .the picture he
is painting here. Mr. Hogan stated he has not seen the article, but
there certainly are not more lambs than' there ever were before.
The sheep have undergone a precipitous decline since 1 973 when
it was originally listed under Fish and Game Code. There has been
fluctuation in population numbers, but the overall trend has been
downward. In the early 1990's was when there was the most.
significant decline and that was when the Martinez Canyon ewe
group, which is found basically south of Highway 74 in the
southern Santa Rosa Mountains took the biggest hit and that
population has not recovered and this is based on a conversation
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he had today with Jim DeForge at the Big Horn Institute.
Commissioner Tyler asked if his organization was publicly funded
or private. Mr. Hogan stated' they were a nonprofit private
conservation organization endangered species advocacy habitat
protection. It is membership funded as well as from foundations.
26. Commissioner Kirk asked if any further information had been
received from Fish and Game relating to the Addendum. Ms.
Jacobs stated yes, they reviewed and concurred with the
Addendum and had comment and that was the mitigation measure
concerning the lake and streambed alteration permit.
Commissioner Kirk stated Mr. Hogan indicated that going back to
the 1995 letter which did express some concerns regarding the
commitment or lack thereof of mitigation measures, have they
repeated those concerns. Ms. Jacobs stated not during the course
of this Addendum EIR. Any of the original concerns dealt with the
Travertine property and how close it was to the Martinez Rock
Slide south of it. The Habitat Management Plan is still a
requirement for the project, but has not been prepared yet and any
and all information that is available for the consultant who
eventually prepares it will be made available. Keep in mind it is the
applicant of the project who is responsible for that preparation.
The City is not required to prepare it. Commissioner Kirk asked if
there was any requirement for Fish and Game or other agency
oversite to the substance of the Habitat Management Plan.
Planning Manager Christine di Iorio stated Fish and Game has to
appr.ove the Habitat Management Plan. Commissioner Kirk asked
if that was for both specific Plans. Staff stated yes and there is
an outline as to what is to be contained within the Management
Plan and that outline came from Fish and Game. Commissioner
Kirk stated that presumably if the Department of Fish and Game
had any concerns about the details or lack thereof, of mitigation
measures, they could address them through the Habitat
Management Plan and/or streambed alteration permit process.
Staff stated yes and this Habitat Management Plan has to be
approved by Fish and Game prior to issuance of a grading permit.
Mr. Hogan stated this is a subject of significant confusion because
Fish and Game when they do the streambed alternation permit also
has to also do the CEQA analysis. He is very confused about the
process and has a feeling that they are more dropping the ball than
agreeing actually to what is going on given their lack of staffing.
His concern is that they will come in two months from now and
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say wait, wait, wait, we have these concerns and we have to do
a CEQA analysis and it is their problem, but that is something that
there would be no streambed alteration permit until CEQA was
completed.
27. Commissioner Kirk asked if the Commission could ask the two
parties to address the negotiations.
28. Chairman Robbins stated he heard two opposing positions on what
had taken place in regard to negotiations and he did not know
whether or not it would be beneficial to hear from the two parties.
29. Commissioner Kirk stated it is very confusing because one side
says specific proposals have been put on the table and the other
side stated no, perhaps they haven't. Perhaps he is confused by
the facts in this case. Mr. Bill Morrow stated he has made
proposals specifically in writing to Mr. Green on more than one
occasion and have never ever once had any response in writing or
verbally with a proposal back from him at any time. Mr. Mainiero
stated he saw one proposal early on in the process. Independently
he was asked by Mr. Green to prepare a cost estimate for what he
believed to be the improvements related to access to the ten lots
in the northwest corner and he did that. What he recalls is that
Mr. Green offered three times what he calculated and that still was
not acceptable. The proposal he saw from the Quarry had items
that did not relate to access and no agreement was ever reached.
In his opinion, as an engineer, the City should never have approved
the final map' without that compensation being resolved.
Approving it and leaving it to the parties to resolve brings .us here
today.
30. Mr. Jack Becker, stated he was one of the owners of the Green
property, and the thing that has motivated him most to speak was
the commentary by the party representing fish and game. As he
understands Fish and Game is a State entity, is that correct?
Chairman Robbins clarified that Mr. Hogan did not represent Fish
and Game. Mr. Becker asked .if Fish and Wildlife was a Federal
agency. Chairman Robbins stated that was correct. Mr. Becker
stated he has owned the land for 20 years and envisioned what
the Quarry eventually did only they did a fantastic thing out of a
gravel pit. He envisioned a beautiful cove that he owns, a nice
beautiful golf course with very Iow density which has happened
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literally everywhere. At that time there was only 100 flat acres
and they basically had a couple hundred acres of Santa Rosa
Mountains and has often wished'the Quarry would buy that one
little twelve acre section and forget these problems. Years ago he
was trying to work out something to trade the Santa Rosa portion
of their half section, approximately 200 acres of Santa Rosa
Mountains, for some of the flat area that is contiguous to his land
that belongs to the Bureau of Land Management (BLM). Section
32 is south of his property and there is a triangular section that is
70-75 acres. In the process he got a hold of Fish and Game, Mr.
James Sarro, who was in charge of accessing property for Fish
and Game. He had several meetings with him and they Walked his
property. He was concerned about the Big Horn Sheep and all the
other biological aspects involved in a big piece of property. He
asked Mr. Sarro if they could make a trade for the Santa Ros'a
Mountains for the flat area. Mr. Sarro stated the land belongs to
BLM and he would see what he could. He has the documents to
back up these conversations. Mr. James Sarro sent him a
document stating that the actual property in Section 29 did not in
any way affect the Big Horn Sheep and therefore they are not
interested in acquiring the property.' They were in favor of trading
those mountains and keeping them as they are, for that land. He
then contacted Ed Hasty at BLM in California, and Mr. Hasty called
him and at that time Section 32 was part of a Wilderness Proposal
and anything in that status with the Federal government can have
nothing done to it. Even though it would have been a beautiful
arrangement to trade off those mountains and let the BLM have
them and let us have the 75 acres, we would of had enough land
to have all the flat with the aesthetics of the mountains. It was a
great thought, but because of the status of. Section 32 it fell by
the wayside. The point he is trying to make is that Fish and Game
said this part of the Santa Rosa Mountains have no affect on the
Big Horn Sheep. He did not hear all the dialog given by Mr.
Hogan, but If he is trying to deny this request on the basis of Big
Horn Sheep, he is trying to create a situation that has already been
resolved by virtue of his former meeting with Fish and Game. He
sat with the founders of the Quarry in make shift Council meetings
before they ever built the Quarry. He loves the Quarry, but they
did have an agreement. If they vacated .Avenue 58 and Adams
Street to public streets and give them access to their 12 acres,
that was part of the agreement. He has been through the Quarry
gate a lot of times and there has been times when they have
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denied him access even though the rule is they cannot deny him
access. He does not want to get into that type of hassle. What
bothers him is that the 'same person who built the Quarry did the
specific plan on their property. If they can't come up with the
exact figures there is something wrong somewhere. What' is
wrong with allowing them to build their road.
31. There being no further public participation, Chairman Robbins
closed the public participation portion of the hearing and opened
the subject to Commission discussion.
32. Commissioner Kirk stated Mr. Hogan has made some good points.
Staff and the consultant have done a good job on the Addendum,
but there have been some new issues that have cropped up. The
other consideration he has is the comment that was made that
suggested if the Commission did approve this perhaps negotiations
would speed along between the two parties. Frankly, that wasn't
a factor that he considered and maybe ought not to consider, it is
interesting that if they were to approve a freeway to get to that
site, maybe negotiations would immediately come to pass. He
does have concerns about development over the toe of the slope
and in particular over a ridge line, so the concerns raised several
years ago by the Department of Fish and Game and more recently
raised by Mr. Hogan do resonate with him. He would be
interested in hearing how the rest of the Commission feels about
these issues at the same time.
33. Commissioner Butler stated this is an issue bigger than approving
an access to ten lots. If the Commission concentrates on access
to ten lots and the toe of the slope issue, as brought up by
Commissioner Kirk, he believes they have mitigated to some
extent the issue about access to the ten lots in the path they have
chosen to access those ten lots. The overall picture is that if they
are approving the access to the ten lots, is it a negotiating tool to
sell the ten lots to the Quarry. He is uncomfortable with the
whole situation. It is not just saying yes on the basis of what we
are presented by staff, this is what we should make our decision
on. He gets conflicting messages that the owners of the Quarry
are willing to allow access to the ten lots and if this were true,
then this road would not have to go forward. He is confused.
34. Commissioner Tyler asked if the whole crux of this hearing has to
do with the road that requires the Conditional Use Permit approval.
If the CUP were denies the rest of it would be moot. Assistant
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City Attorney John Ramirez stated that was right, it is an
extension of a package of entitlements before the Commission.
The CUP is a necessary component of the road. To the extent
there is a scenario that envisions the lessening a lessening of the
grade perhaps that would ameliorate the need for a CUP, but as
proposed, a CUP is required. Commissioner Tyler asked if the CUP
was not approved the other resolutions would not be necessary.
Assistant City Attorney Ramirez stated that if the CUP were not
approved, the project would not go forward. The other approvals
to some extent, are intertwined, but to another extent they stand
on their own merit. Does the Commission want him to address
the comments made by Mr. Hogan on the EIR?
35. Chairman Robbins asked legal counsel to address the comments
made by Mr. Hogan. Assistant City Attorney John Ramirez stated
there were three comments. One may be relevant or irrelevant,
but as a quick background, the Center for Biological Diversity filed
a lawsuit against BLM some time ago seeking to close a number
of public access trails including the Boo Hoff Trail at the north end
of the Cove. The lawsuit was scheduled to be settled by
stipulation by the former U.S. Attorney's office and the Center just
days prior to the prior presidential administration leaving office. A
number of affected entities in the Valley were informed of this at
the 11th hour by the local office of the BLM and filed a brief in
opposition to that stipulated settlement. Certainly the City
encourages and does in fact encourage broad public participation
of a wide variety of individuals and groups including the Center for
Biological Diversity. Given the lack of participation by the Center
with respect to other City projects for years prior, he raised the
issue as to whether or not there is some nexus with the City's
brief filed in that case which was merely five or six weeks ago and
their participation here. That aside and dealing with the legal
issues in the letter there are really two issues. The first is the
original EIR adopted in 1995 for Specific Plan. That EIR studied
thoroughly the impact to the Peninsular Big Horn Sheep and
although there is documentation throughout the EIR, Pages 3.8-5
to 3.8-10, he thinks are particularly relevant including the finding
as expressed in the EIR that potentially impacts to Big Horn Sheep
are considered significant. This was included in the 1995 EIR.
That EIR, as the Commission knows, was adopted on the basis of
overriding considerations specifically dealing with the significant
impact to the Peninsular Big Horn Sheep. To the extent the letter
is trying to raise an issue as to the adequacy of the study, that is
time barred by Public Resources Code Section 211 67.2. Certainly
the Public Resources Code and the Guidelines make quite clear
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that one is not able to reopen previously approved EIR's when
those EIRs considered the issue we have here which is the impact
to Peninsular Big Horn Sheep. With respect to the allegations in
the letter that there are changed circumstances, the City
Attorney's office has reviewed along with staff and consultants
and they believe there are no changed circumstances. The impact,
as stated earlier, was studies in the 1995 EIR. A couple cases are
relevant here, Sierra Club vs. Gilroy City Council, 1 990 Court of
Appeals decision 222 CaI.App.3d30 was a case involving the
allegation that a discovery of an endangered species on a project
site years after an EIR was adopted required a new EIR as opposed
to an Addendum, and the Court rejected the Addendum on the
basis that the previously approved EIR fully studied the significant
impact to endangered species. A second case, Chaparral Greens
vs. City of Chula Vista, 1996, 50 CaI.App.4th 1134, again the
allegation that new information exists does not reopen the EIR
when the previously adopted EIR studied the impacts to species or
habitat. Significantly, the consultant recognized the trustee
agency, California Fish and Game has been working with the City
on the mitigation measures. This is the agency that is statutorily
obligated and charged with the enforcing the endangered species
act. They have worked with the City and provided their thoughts
on the Addendum and as the consultant stated earlier, the only
issue they raised was with respect to the Streambed Alteration
Permit requirement. The allegation that the 1995 letter and the
issues contained therein were not resolved is simply wrong. In the
comments received in the Response to Comments prepared in
conjunction with 1995 EIR, there is ample documentation with
respect the comments raised by the Fish and Game and responded
to by the lead agency in the EIR. And finally, he might add, in
reference to the allegation of impact and where we are with
respect to the status of Big Horn Sheep, Jim DeForge's name was
referenced with respect to the latest study, the latest newspaper
article Commissioner Tyler referred to which is April 9, 2001, the
heading is "Valley's Big Horn population is thriving". Jim DeForge
is quoted, "the numbers are up in both ranges. So to the extent
that there is an allegation of decline, this is not supported by this
study, nor is it supported in the Recovery Plan adopted by U.S.
Fish and Wildlife Service. So based on our review we think the
Addendum is both adequate and appropriate.
36. Commissioner Tyler stated that if there was a written signed
agreement between the two developers stating they have been
unable to settle the issue, and the road is the only alternative, he
would feel a lot different about it. We have double talk and dialog,
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but no hard facts have been presented. He shares Commissioner
Kirk's concern about approving a road that goes over the toe of
slope and ridgeline. There is nothing in the CUP as written that
even limits it to a specific plan to show exactly where the road will
go. Right now he cannot endorse the CUP.
37. Commissioner Butler stated he would agree with most of what
Commissioner Tyler stated, but by the same token the
Commission is being put into a position where they are .denying
access to a property owner which we have approved for the
purpose of development. It is getting to a grey area whether they
access it through Quarry or they access it through their own
property. He is uncertain whether in fact we accept the toe of
slope and access route they have chose, but he does not know if
the Commission can stop them from accessing their own property.
He does not disagree with the points made, but with all other.
issues aside, the Commission does have to deal with the fact that
this gentleman has the right to get to his ten lots. From that
standpoint the Commission has to consider it and not just say no
that CUP will not allow it. Once we say no, we have isolated his
ten lots and if he does not settle with the Quarry, we are creating
a problem.
38. Commissioner ,Tyler stated the Commission has considered it on
various occasions in the past and the City Council has considered
it. It is not a new issue. It has been around for many years.
39. Commissioner Kirk stated this issue does arise if we do have to
allow some sort of development if that is the only development
allowed. However, it is his understanding that because the Green
Specific Plan includes lots of other developable area, this would
not be considered a taking, at least not under the current
interpretation of the law, because there is other land that can be
'- developed. Assistant City Attorney John Ramirez stated yes, and
we said we have vision access to prior processes which makes it
a little different. He would generally agree. Commissioner Kirk
stated he is concerned about the process at this meeting. The
CommissiOn has heard him address issues of signage, for example,
chain stores versus the small businesses, and we have something
similar here and it just came up in terms of the process. When
staff receives correspondence it is generally included in the agenda
packet and if those letters address issues they generally address
those in the staff report. The Commission received a letter, at the
last minutes, from the Center for Biological Diversity and it is an
organization he is somewhat familiar with and for the most part,
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April 10, 2001
generally do not agree with their tactics or substance of their
issues; personally or politically. At the same time he is really
concerned about the process. Mr. Hogan asked if he could rebut
the-likely comments made by our City Attorney. We held off on
the City Attorney comments until after the public participation
portion of the hearing and to him that is wrong. He finds that
disagreeable, unfair, and if City staff did that on every letter that
came in they would have a lot of unhappy residents and justifiably
so. The Assistant City Attorney did a fine job of rebutting the
issues and was very articulate and he had a very well prepared
rebuttal to Mr. Hogan's points and that should have been made in
the staff report to give Mr. Hogan a chance to address those
issues. Therefore, he has a real concern about this and he hopes
this does not happen in the future. He finds it certainly
inappropriate at the best.
40. Commissioner Abels stated there was no time for this to have
been included in the staff report.
41. Commissioner Kirk stated he agreed but yet the City Attorney had
time to prepare a well planned verbal response that should have
been included in the staff report to give to those in the public a
chance to rebut or address those issues. Assistant City Attorney
John Ramirez stated they could reopen the public participation of
the hearing if the Commission wanted to provide for nominal
rebuttal time. Commissioner Kirk stated he has significant
concerns. He does not think that is fair. I do not think the
Commission should do that to people who go out of their way to
come ~o the public hearing and don't have a chance to address the
issue. He would leave it up to the Chair as to whether he would
reopen the public hearing.
42. Chairman Robbins stated everyone has been focusing on the EIR
portion and no one has made any comment on the Specific Plan or
whether any of the addendum or changes to the Specific Plan are
apprOpriate and he would like to say that we also need to look at
the Specific Plan changes and one of the changes he has found
significant is that it does not address landscape guidelines or any
other issues. If they get the point of approving this project, he
would like to add some conditions that they develop landscape
guidelines that conform with the City's landscape ordinance. He
has a questioned as to whether approving the Addendum opens
the 30-day review process for the entire EIR to challenge.
Assistant City Attorney John Ramirez stated he does not know the
statue as to challenging the Addendum. It perhaps is 30 days, but
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April 10, 2001
certainly it does not open up a challenge to the previously adopted
EIR. Chairman Robbins stated his concern was that by approving
the road it would reopen the EIR for challenge. Assistant City
AttorneY John Ramirez stated pursuant to Public Resources Code
Section 21 167.2 and others perhaps, it is quite clear that the
previously EIR is time barred from subsequent challenges.
Chairman Robbins clarified that only the relevant issues to the
Addendum could be challenged. Assistant City Attorney John
Ramirez stated the question is that pursuant to CEQA Guidelines
is the Addendum a permissible way to go under CEQA. Chairman
Robbins stated it has been intimated by one side or the other that
the Quarry is not cooperating with this whole process and there is
a whole issue with the Quarry with public right of way going
through their golf course and several of their lots. Is it at the
discretion of the Commission that if a future request came through
for the Quarry for a approval of something, that the Commission
could deny any future approvals on the Quarry until matters of
right of way, vacation, and access were resolved. Assistant City
Attorney John Ramirez stated he was hesitate to answer this in
the absence of a specific project or scenario. Certainly, he would
recommend that the Commission look at this project in isolation.
Obviously, there is background that is relevant, but he is
uncomfortable answering as to what future options there are to
condition the Quarry. As he understands the previous condition,
it is something akin to agreeing to agree and obviously by all
accounts, has not happened yet. Chairman Robbins stated Mr.
Hogan made some comments relative to what essential habitat is
and he would like to comment that to his understanding, essential
habitat has absolutely no legal standing under the law and it was
a term developed specifically and exclusively for use in the Big
Horn Sheep. The law has critical habitat .which has since been
established which has a different boundary than the essential
habitat and the essential habitat was something made up for the
purposes of the Big Horn Sheep Recovery Plan. He also has had
the opportunity to discuss Big Horn Sheep issues with Fish and
Wildlife personnel and have discussed Big Horn Sheep close to this
property and' in all his discussions, the Green property was not of
concern with Fish and Wildlife while the Travertine was of grave
concern to Fish and Wildlife. The last issue he would like to raise
is that he would like to apologize to Commissioner Kirk and the
other Commissioners, after listening he agrees with Commissioner
Kirk and should have conducted the meeting differently and that
would have been the proper way to do it.
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43. Commissioner Kirk stated he had a creative or foolish suggestion.
As pointed out, the Commission is in a'difficult position. He would
therefore, suggest continuing this and ask the parties to work
together on the access issue with a neutral third party present. He
Would then like to see them come back with an arbitrator or City
Attorney's third party assessment and perhaps with some support
from the City Engineer on the value of the access and appropriate
maintenance cost and the like. That could influence their decision
in the future. If they do not do this at this stage, he agrees with
Commission Tyler that he would not be comfortable with the
application. There are too many questions that have been raised
and he would vote against it at this stage.
44. Commissioner Abels concurred and he would like to make a
motion that this be continued to another date that would be
agreeable with the two parties concerned so they can resolve this
issue.
45. Chairman Robbins asked the Assistant City Attorney if the
Commission could make such a motion. Assistant City Attorney
John Ramirez stated they can vote to continue the hearing and
provide guidance as to what the Commission wants brought back.
46. Commissioner Tyler stated he seconded the motion.
47. Commissioner Butler asked if they decided to vote at this meeting,
it was obvious that they would unanimously deny this effort, and
if it moved on to the City Council for their decision, are they
pushing the applicant to meet and mediate with their neighbor? By
going this way they are opening the time frame to allow them to
resolve the issue.
48. Commissioner Kirk stated he would like to ask the applicant and
he is not sure it is a unanimous disapproval and he is not sure if
they came back, based on a neutral parties assessment, how he
or others would vote. He asked the two parties for their opinion.
Mr. Bob Mainiero asked if the Commission wanted it back or
would they prefer the project to go forward. Discussion followed
regarding the options.
Chairman Robbins recessed the meeting at 8:55 p.m. and reconvened at 9:04 p.m.
49. Chairman Robbins asked Mr. Mainiero what they would prefer.
Mr'. Mainiero stated that in the interest of good faith and
cooperation they are willing to try negotiations. Mr. Morrow
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April 10, 2001
stated he made a proposal to Mr. Green just last week which was
not responded. He would be glad to meet with Mr. Green at any
time with a 24-hour notice. He has no interest in meeting with an
engineer or attorney. He would like to meet with the principal, the
person who can make the decision. If he would like to do that he
would be more than pleased to do that. If the Commission would
like a referee in the room to not necessarily negotiate, but to hear
both sides and make suggestions, that would be fine. He is
available at any time as he has been for the last seven years.
50. There being no further discussion, it was moved and seconded by
Commissioners Kirk/Abels to continue this item to May 8, 2001.
Unanimously approved.
D. Zoning Code Amendment 2000-068; a request of the City for an
Amendment to Section 1 3.20.11 5 - Amending Maps, of the Municipal
Code to allow approval of final maps by the Community Development
Director.
1. Chairman Robbins opened the public hearing and asked for the
staff report. Planning Manager Christine di Iorio presented the
information contained in the staff report, a copy of which is on file
in the Community Development Department.
2. Chairman Robbins asked if there were any questiqns of staff.
Commissioner Tyler asked what initiated this. Staff stated map
changes were requested to be made by the applicant under a lot
line adjustment. This does not allow for a public hearing. Senior
Engineer Steve Speer explained that an amending map is done
when there is a map recorded and you want to change the
configuration. There are two levels of amending maps. If there is
something technically wrong, it is doe at the staff level. If there
is a reconfiguring of the lots it has to go to a public hearing and in
the amending map process you can only focus on the issues of
what is being done to the map. You can no longer condition the
map. If you do not like what they are doing you can deny the map
and in that case the applicant could go back through the tentative
tract map processing process and then conditions could be added.
Because it is limited only to the changes that are being made to
the map, and we do want some type of public hearing process,
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April 10, 2001
staff is trying to take it to the Director's level rather than through
two legislative bodies. To amend a map you have to own all the
lots in the property or have consent from all the property owners
in the tract, therefore, it usually is limited to a developer because
they have control over all the lots.
3. Chairman Robbins asked if under the amending process are you
allowed to create any additional lots. Staff stated no.
4. Commissioner Tyler commented on the staff report.
5. Chairman Robbins asked if there was any other public comment.
6. There being no further public comment, Chairman Robbins closed
the public participation portion of the hearing and asked if there
was any Commission discussion.
7. There being no further discussion, it was moved and seconded by
Commissioner Tyler/Butler to adopt Planning Commission
Resolution 2001-048 recommending approval of Zoning Code
Amendment 2001-068, as submitted.
·
ROLL CALL: AYES' Commissioners Abels, Butler, Kirk, Tyler, and
Chairman Robbins. NOES: None. ABSENT: None.
ABSTAIN: None.
VI. BUSINESS ITEMS: None
VII. CORRESPONDENCE AND WRITTEN MATERIAL: None.
VIII. COMMISSIONER ITEMS:
A. Commissioner Tyler gave a report of the City Council meeting of April 3,
2001.
IX. ADJOURNMENT:
There being no further business, it was moved and seconded by Commissioners
Abels/Butler to adjourn this regular meeting of the Planning Commission to the next
regular meeting of the Planning Commission to be held April 24, 2001, at 7:00 p.m.
This meeting of the Planning Commission was adjourned at 9:18 p.m. on April 10,
2001.
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Respectfully submitted,
Betty J S(,~a/wyer, Executive Secretary
City of La Quinta, California
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