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2003 05 30 RDA Minutes LA QUINTA REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY r .... SPECIAL MEETING ; MINUTES MAY 30, 2003 A special meeting of the La Quinta Redevelopment Agency was called to order by Chairperson Henderson at 10:00 a.m. PRESENT: Board Members Adolph, Osborne, Perkins, Sniff, Chairperson Henderson ABSENT: None PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE Chairperson Henderson led the audience in the pledge of allegiance. PUBLIC COMMENT- None CONFIRMATION OF AGENDA - Confirmed ', BUSINESS SESSION ' 1. CONSIDERATION OF GOLF COURSE ARCHITECTURAL SERVICES FOR SILVERROCK RANCH. Assistant Executive Director Weiss presented the staff report. DOn Rector, 46-450 Cameo Palms Drive, commented on the issue of water availability, and stated it is his understanding that one of the four firms making presentations today designs golf courses with water conservation in mind. Presentation by Palmer Course Desi_~n Erik Larsen, Vice President with Palmer Course Design, gave a brief presentation on the firm's background and qualifications. In response to Board Member Osborne, Mr. Larsen stated they will have three people working on the project. He said the only PGA tournament course in the Valley they have designed is PGA West. He stated the water issue is more difficult with public golf than tournament golf because public golfers require more grass area to play on. He indicated they have designed public golf courses Redevelopment Agency Minutes 2 May 30, 2003 in Arizona where the limit on irrigated golf areas is 90 acres, and he feels that is an ample area. In response to Board Member Sniff, Mr. Larsen stated in order for a golf course to be the best, it must satisfy the golf digest rating criteria, which includes shot values, memorability, resistance to scoring, walk-ability, maintenance, overall beauty, and relative playability. The golf course must be shaped beautifully, beautifully maintained, landscaped exquisitely, include water features, and be walkable. It must also be difficult enough for the good player. He stated golf course prices can range from $1 million to $50 million but the cost of the basics is the same for any course. The difference is in the amount of earth moved to make dramatic looks, dramatic landscaping, water features, and rock walls. He believes the concept plan is good but that no plan goes untouched. It is a general guideline to follow. He stated if there is not enough water for the plan, then it will have to be rethought. He agreed view corridors, offsite and onsite, are of critical importance, and create interest. He acknowledged that multiple hotel sites, hiking trails, playground areas, etc. have to be integrated into the golf course design. Mr. Larsen then responded to several questions by Board Member Adolph. He stated he is comfortable that the concept plan has potential for getting where the City wants the golf course to be. As to if the lake should be reduced in size, he feels they can make the golf course equally attractive and exciting to play but stated they would give up the lake reluctantly because of the value and character it adds to the overall project, particularly the hotel views. He noted the lake is more valuable to the balance of the project than it is to the golf aspect. He stated there are new irrigation techniques available for water conservation but a sophisticated control system for application of the water is the key for monitoring water use. They would try not to import dirt but rather "cut and fill" on the site. He stated he likes to raise greens and the next tee for best utilization of the dirt moved to create vertical change. He agreed the fairways paralleling Jefferson Street need to be modified, and stated he believes Bermuda grass is the best for greens and tees. He feels the current plan reflects a good solution for a tournament venue but would need to incorporate the tournament setup program. He stated the key is being able to move spectators around the course, provide good viewing areas, housing and parking for both players and spectators, and providing sufficient space for sponsor tents, which he noted may be helped by reducing the size of the lake. Board Member Adolph commented on the need for the golf course yardage to be long enough to keep up with current and future development of golf equipment and yet remain user-friendly from the front tees. Redevelopment Agency Minutes 3 May 30, 2003 In further response to Board Member Adolph, Mr. Larsen stated separation between fairways can be addressed by making sure the yardage is on paper, and by tweaking the length of the holes as they are built. He stated using parallel fairways is a nice way on a tournament course to elevate between the holes. It creates spectator areas, and provides a safety margin. When the grade goes up he likes to use elevated plant material to enhance the height, and provide a physical separation between the two fairways. He noted the minimal distance between the center lines of the two fairways should be 250 feet. He feels the trees on site should be inventoried to see if they would fit into the landscape motif. Board Member Perkins stated he believes the lakes will play an important part in drawing a five-star hotel. He hopes they can be preserved in the plan and still address the water problem in the Valley. He also commented on the need to provide sufficient parking. He asked if he feels the tournament course and public course in this plan can be blended, to which Mr. Larsen responded, "Yes." Chairperson Henderson asked if their intent would be to provide a dual plan, one that works with water and one that works with less water. She noted the timeframe doesn't allow for coming back with an alternate plan. Mr. Larsen stated they provide one plan that shows horizontally where the golf course, water features, etc. are located. If they can get information regarding the storage of water, they can incorporate that into the plan up-front but won't know the use of the water until they have that information. The next set of drawings (construction and irrigation design) will reflect the usage and control of the application of water. They can show a plan that has less storage or a bigger lake but won't know how that impacts water usage until they have the information. He doesn't believe CVWD will refuse to provide enough water for the project. Chairperson Henderson stated she feels it is important for the public to know that the lake water can be used for storage, retention, irrigation, etc. Mr. Larsen noted the public will more likely buy into the idea if the lake can be used for swimming, boating, etc. He stated walk-ability is important for both the players and spectators, and he feels this course is ideal for both. He clarified irrigation systems in this area need to be bigger than those on the other side of the country because of less water but irrigation systems in this area are relatively the same size. He said the irrigation system cost is about one third of the golf course cost. Redevelopment Agency Minutes 4 May 30, 2003 Board Member Adolph referenced the cost proposal, and commented on the per- visit charges for Mr. Palmer. In response to Chairperson Henderson, Mr. Weiss stated staff has asked GMA, as part of their contract extension for land-use planning services, to include a water master plan showing water usage for the existing plan, minimum water needed to support a golf course, and alternatives in between. He advised GMA is working with an engineering firm to put together a proposal for contract consideration at a future date. Chairperson Henderson recommended having that information before a golf architect designs a golf course that is in conflict with that information. In response to Board Member Sniff, Mr. Weiss confirmed alternative water sources will be included in the master water plan. He added CVWD has indicated they are working to resolve the water availability issue, and expect to purchase water on an interim basis to supplement existing supplies. They are also working to resolve what they believe is a political issue in terms of water availability in the long term for the Valley. Presentation by John Fouqht Design John Fought, Principal with John Fought Design, gave a brief presentation on the firms's background and qualifications. In response to Board Member Sniff, Mr. Fought stated he does not feel constrained by the concept plan, and believes with no additional cost, he can design a superior plan. He believes any additional funds to make this project stand out over others should be used to create a separate and distinct motif, and by using mature landscape material. He feels it's realistic to create a great golf course with less water than what is proposed in the concept plan, and because the property is flat, he doesn't feel streams and recirculating creeks would be very effective on the site. He agreed a sense of water can be created with vertical water features. He referenced golf course developments he has worked on that included retail and hotel components. He agreed the hotel sites should be concentrated in the center to keep down costs, and feels that has been addressed very well in the concept plan. He also agreed with using rocks to create a sense of bringing the mountain into the project. In response to Board Member Adolph, Mr. Fought stated he supports using Bermuda grass on the greens and fairways, and added he is not aware of any proven grass that eliminates the need to reseed each year. He confirmed part Redevelopment Agency Minutes 5 May 30, 2003 of his design criteria is to make sure there is sufficient vendor/sponsor space, especially on the finishing holes. In response to Board Member Perkins, Mr. Fought stated his proposal to include the clubhouse in the hotel wasn't intended to eliminate a clubhouse or tournament pavilion facility but rather that some of the operations could be combined into a potential hotel setting. He feels a hotel can be added to a golf facility and make it look like one facility if planned that way. Under his proposal, each course would be 7,400 yards with the ability to increase to 8,000 yards. He feels the site has an abundance of room, and that the site can retain the rugged desert and still provide a green project. In response to Board Member Osborne, Mr. Fought stated he has worked on 11 golf courses in the southwest over the last three years, and The Gallery is listed as one of the top 100 courses. He stated he would subcontract with Harvey Mills Design for the irrigation. He supports using all types of trees but would not use a lot of palm trees. He confirmed he would be the architect on the project. He stated the water acreage could be between 90 to 150 acres, depending on the motif and water availability. Chairperson Henderson asked should he be selected, would he use his design to build upon or base his design on the concept plan. She noted the concept plan has flexibility but also accommodates a significant number of requirements, such as the nine-hole course. She questioned having the clubhouse in the hotel because this is a multi-use project with a community activity. Mr. Fought stated he believes a nine-hole course could very easily be incorporated into his design. In further response to Chairperson Henderson, he stated he feels the canal should be accommodated much like a street but shouldn't be a dominant feature. He is not supportive of using large numbers of palm trees because they are used so much on golf courses, and he feels each golf course should have it's own "personality." Board Member Sniff asked about using the canal as a delineation between the two courses, and Mr. Fought stated he feels it could be done. The Agency recessed at 12:15 p.m. The Agency reconvened at 1:15 p.m. Redevelopment Agency Minutes 6 May 30, 2003 Presentation by Jacobsen Hardy Jim Hardy, Principal Architect with Jacobsen Hardy Golf Design, gave a brief presentation on the firm's background and qualifications. In response to Board Member Adolph, Mr. Hardy confirmed they can live within the parameters of the concept plan. He stated he likes to use different environments within the course much like they've done at The Quarry. He commented on the evaporation problem with large bodies of water and the need to use both salt-tolerant and drought-tolerant grasses. He stated they would "cut-and-fill" to make elevation changes to the site, and agreed with modifying the fairways next to Jefferson Street to reduce the potential of golf balls being hit into the street. He stated they do not have a preconceived opinion about turf but have been a leader in using some of the new Bermuda grasses on the greens and fairways. He stated he has not reviewed the routing plan for tournament circulation but agrees the provision of concession areas and parking is an important factor in drawing PGA tournaments. He commented on the importance of having a practice facility for juniors and others to learn how to play golf without interfering with the regular golfer. He concurred with lengthening some of the holes to provide more yardage, and indicated parallel fairways can be differentiated by varying the elevations, or by separating them with water, landscaping, and bunkers. He noted the movement of spectators during tournaments is sometimes done by moving them down one side of the fairway. In response to Board Member Perkins, Mr. Hardy stated he feels a tournament course should be designed to be enjoyable and draw people to return, and yet be challenging enough for pro golfers. He believes a high quality golf course can be built on the current routing plan but they would spend some time on the property to determine what opportunities might exist to improve it, such as reversing the holes adjacent to Jefferson Street. He also feels it is vital to design the course with potential to extend the back tees for longer yardage. In response to Board Member Osborne, Mr. Hardy stated he worked with GMA on a project about four years ago. He indicated they would probably use Larry Rogers Design for the irrigation system, and have asked him to look into recent legislation on water use. He confirmed he is very aware of local landscaping, and stated he supports using more indigenous trees than heavily-irrigated trees. He attributed the success of the Beth Page municipal golf course in New York to its location near a populated area. He noted, however, the course is designed for expert golfers, and no one else is allowed to play there. Redevelopment Agency Minutes 7 May 30, 2003 Board Member Sniff stated he feelS it is important to think of the bulk of people that will use the golf course because tournaments do not happen everyday. He asked if they have designed a golf course that proved to be less than successful financially. Mr. Hardy stated every course they've done remains successful, and is operated by the original owners without any bankruptcies. He owns seven golf courses, and the reasons people play there, besides price and proximity, is 70% because of the condition, 20% because of the beauty, and the 10% because it is fun by providing the right kind of challenge and opportunity to do well. He noted slopes that get bigger and more vertical over extremely short distances are hard to maintain. He believes a "wow" factor is needed for golfers to come back but the course must also be maintainable. He feels landscaping sets the theme for each golf hole but shouldn't be repeated for every hole or you lose variability. He feels the Iow areas identify with an oasis setting, and the high areas identify with desert scape. He referenced several golf courses he developed that include public golf, tournament golf, and hotels. The location of multiple hotels on the site depends on the quality of the hotels. He feels the high-end hotels should be clustered away from lower-end hotels. As for the possibility of putting the _ _ two golf courses on either side of the canal, he stated he could not answer that without a fair amount of study. He agreed figuring the canal into the design would be a challenge. Gary Panks Associates Gary Panks, President of Gary Panks Associates, gave a brief presentation on the firm's background and .qualifications. In response to Board Member Perkins, Mr. Panks stated he believes his firm should be selected because of their creative design, and ability to carry it out in a highly professional manner. He stated the concept plan fails to provide gallery areas or change in direction of the golf holes. Chairperson Henderson referenced the Trilogy course designed by his firm, and asked if the course can accommodate the current strain because of the water shortage. Mr. Panks stated water availability was anticipated to be a problem during design of the course, and the water issue was addressed early on. He stated the client wanted 120 acres of turf but they talked him into 100 acres. In further response to Chairperson Henderson, he confirmed Trilogy has well sites in place. In reference to the flatness of the Trilogy project, he stated the course Redevelopment Agency Minutes 8 May 30, 2003 looks flat only when you're not on the fairways because it was designed according to the client's desire to sell homes. He indicated he has worked on a half dozen golf courses that include hotels, retail, and hiking trails. He feels the hiking trail in the master plan can be compatible with golf. In response to Board Member Osborne, Mr. Panks stated he has visited the site three times. He attributes the success of the municipal golf course in Phoenix to the Phoenix Open being played there, the amount of gallery space, and great promotion. In response to Board Member Sniff, Mr. Panks stated they have no preconceived ideas about the routing plan, and are willing to sit with staff and come up with a plan of action. He feels the budget is adequate to produce what the City wants for this project but it will probably take it all because of the prevailing wage requirement. He believes the greatest assets in the project are the mountains and the location, and that landscaping ranks as one of the top three issues. He stated they are flexible and talented in providing a desert landscape pallette, and noted the project needs a landscape master plan. He understands the maintenance needs to be kept as inexpensive as possible. He then referenced several golf projects he has worked on that incorporated hotels, retail, public golf, and tournament golf. In response to Board Member Adolph, Mr. Panks stated they do their designs freehand then put it in the computer. He explained the firm's relationship with Communication Links, and noted that company handles other golf-related amenities. Regarding the addition of trees at Trilogy, they planted approximately 3,500 trees on the site but the trees were smaller and will take some time to grow. He added some courses get carried away with trees and later remove them because they get in the way. As for rough areas, he stated they are sensitive to the fact that too many hazards take more time for play. He indicated they would use Bermuda grass, and would not import dirt unless the soil on the site is not good for top soil. He concurred with the need for adequate space around the 1 st and 18th holes for sponsors during tournaments. Chairperson Henderson asked his opinion on lush versus desertscape if water is not an issue. Mr. Panks stated he likes a lot of trees and grass. Brent Harvey, Irrigation Consultant with Harvey Mills Design, stated he feels irrigation is the key issue, and that individual irrigation on plants works better. He stated each of their team members are landscape architects. In response to Redevelopment Agency Minutes 9 May 30, 2003 Board Member Adolph, he stated they have done target golf, and whether or not it is irrigated depends on the terrain. He feels if the area has enough character, it's better to leave it undisturbed. Mr. Panks noted the gallery areas need to be designed so people can walk on them comfortably. In response to Board Member Sniff, Mr. Panks stated a lO-foot cut and fill provides a 20-foot elevation change, which they feel is sufficient for one hole. Their standard is no more than a 30-foot elevation change for one golf shot. In response to Board Member Sniff, Mr. Weiss stated samples have been taken from various places on the property for soil analysis. Gary Brawley, Associate Designer with Gary Panks Associates, stated the overall drainage is a key ingredient with cut and fill. Board Member Sniff stated he doesn't feel the issue of how to deal with flood waters on the property has been addressed. Mr. Rector spoke in support of the Jacobsen Hardy firm. In response to Board Member Adolph, Mr. Weiss stated the indication staff has received from developers is that the golf course must be fun to play and that over a period of time, being fun to play is more important than having an architect's name connected to the course.' He stated only one of the hoteliers has indicated disinterest if a "name" architect is not involved. There has been some indication that having a "name" architect adds significant value to the real estate, and can enhance the fees that can be charged. He feels an architect's name will be dominant the first year to draw people but not necessarily over a period of time. BALLOT NO. 1 Board Member Adolph voted for Jacobsen Hardy Board Member Osborne voted for Palmer COurse Design Board Member Perkins voted for Palmer Course Design Board Member Sniff voted for Gary Panks Associates Chairperson Henderson voted for Palmer Course Design Redevelopment Agency Minutes 10 May 30, 2003 MOTION - It was moved by Board Members Perkins/Adolph to authorize staff to negotiate a contract for golf course architectural services with Palmer Course Design. Motion carried unanimously. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business, it was moved by Board Members Perkins/Osborne to adjourn. Motion carried unanimously. Respectfully submitted, JUNE S. GREEK, Agency Secretary La Quinta Redevelopment Agency