2006 06 15 HPC Minutes
MINUTES
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MEETING
A Special meeting held at the La Ouinta City Hall Session Room
78-495 Calle Tampico, La Ouinta, CA
June 15, 2006
This meeting of the Historic Preservation Commission was called to order by
Chairperson Wilbur at 3:04 p.m. who then led the flag salute and asked for the roll
call.
I. CALL TO ORDER
A. Pledge of Allegiance.
B. Roll Call.
Present:
Commissioners Mouriquand,
Wright, and Chairman Wilbur
Puente, Sharp,
Staff Present:
Principal Planner Stan Sawa, Associate
Planner Andrew Mogensen, and Secretary
Carolyn Walker
II. PUBLIC COMMENT:
III. CONFIRMATION OF THE AGENDA:
IV. CONSENT CALENDAR:
It was moved and seconded by Commissioners Puente and Wright to
approve the minutes of May 18, 2006 as submitted. Unanimously approved.
V. BUSINESS ITEMS:
A. Phase I Cultural Resources Survey Report For a 4.84 Acre Parcel
Applicant: David Maman Designs
Consultants: Archaeological Associates, (Robert S. White, Et all. for
Eilar Associates
Location: south side of Avenue 58, West of Monroe Street.
1 . Associate Planner Andrew Mogensen presented the information
contained in the staff report, a copy of which is on file in the
Community Development Department.
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2. Commissioner Sharp asked if there was only one house on the
property. Staff replied yes. Archaeologist Robert White said
there was another adobe house on a nearby property.
3. Chairman Wilbur commented he agreed with the
recommendation of making a photographic record, but did not
agree with demolition of the building. He asked if the building
could be renovated and questioned whether the applicant could
have known of the history of the structure just by looking at it.
Mr. Maman replied he did not know there was a historic adobe
on the property. He bought the property with the idea of
demolishing the house. He added there had been some additions
made to the house, and it was not in good condition.
4. Commissioner Wright asked if the property was being developed
as a residential project. The applicant said yes. Commissioner
Wright asked if the adobe had been substantially altered. The
applicant said it had, plus it had been involved in a fire.
5. Commissioner Mouriquand asked the date of the fire and if
there were records from the Fire Department. Applicant said
the fire occurred approximately five years ago. Staff replied the
City did not have records of the fire since this property was not
part of La Quinta at that time. Commissioner Mouriquand asked
when the property was annexed and suggested the applicant go
to the Riverside County Fire Department for the records.
6. Commissioner Wright said this is an example of the problems
experienced in accommodating a historic structure on a smaller
project. The Commission has been able to utilize structures on
larger projects, such as the Hacienda del Gato. They came
across this problem on the Point Happy Ranch project. The
alterations deteriorated the historical value of the property
7. Commissioner Puente asked if the applicant was planning on
keeping the structure. Applicant replied no.
8. Commissioner Wright said it would not be economically viable
for a 4.5 acre parcel to retain the structure. The Commission
needs to look at all aspects of the project. He recommended
photographic documentation and demolition.
9. Chairman Wilbur read a line from Page 46 which discussed the
west adobe's condition and the problem with its location.
Chairman Wilbur asked if it was possible to look into the
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question of what could be done to maintain viability of the
project.
10. Commissioner Wright reiterated the economic viability of the
project. The applicant showed several suggested layouts
showing the project was not viable with the adobe house on its
present site. It is right in the middle of the project. He made
reference to the Point Happy tennis house demolition and said
4.5 acres could not sustain this type of renovation and
retrofitting cost.
11. Commissioner Mouriquand asked what was triggering the
retrofit. Chairman Wilbur said the Addendum stated the
building was unsafe and would fall down in an earthquake.
Commissioner Mouriquand said the building has gone through a
number of earthquakes and was still standing.
12. Commissioner Wright replied they made the La Quinta Hotel do
the same thing and it didn't make any difference how many
earthquakes it had gone through. Commissioner Mouriquand
said that was for public occupancy.
13. Commissioner Puente asked if the environmental review would
include identifying this house as historical and require the
developer to comply with specific conditions.
14. Commissioner Mouriquand stated the Commission should
consider, as an option, that maybe this development should not
be approved. Maybe this is such a significant resource that it
should not be destroyed and the land subdivided. She said she
would like to explore some other options of re-designing to
preserve this adobe house rather than rushing into demolition.
This home has incredible integrity and questioned what was
triggering the retrofit. Staff said that's a statement from the
applicant's structural engineer. Archaeological Associates has
another statement from their structural engineer and they
referenced the Historic Building Code. In discussion with City
building officials, the Historic Building Code's purpose of
retrofitting is to stabilize the building so you can safely exit in
case of an earthquake.
15. Commissioner Mouriquand said she understood the Building
Code, but wanted to know what was triggering this particular
retrofit. Staff replied they were going by the information
received from the structural engineer. Commissioner
Mouriquand asked about other re-design options the applicant
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has pursued. Staff said the applicant had some layout examples
which Commissioner Mouriquand asked to have displayed.
16. Jonathan Hoy, Civil Engineer explained several layouts
considered.
17. Commissioner Sharp asked the size of the structure. Staff
replied about 2,500 square feet.
18. Mr. Hoy explained they had tried to keep the residence in the
center of the parcel and design something that could go around
the structure. He said the redesign created substandard lots that
did not meet typical development standards regarding width and
depth. Every exhibit had issues with substandard lots.
19. Commissioner Mouriquand asked staff if there was any way to
grant a waiver of the standards so that preservation could be
achieved. Staff replied the applicant could file a Specific Plan.
20. Commissioner Mouriquand commented there was a mechanism
the client can go through to officially allow him to have a
subdivision with different development standards for lot width
and depths (substandard lots) which would make the re-design
resolvable. She asked if the office addition could be torn down.
Applicant said it has already been taken into consideration and
there would still be a loss of four lots.
21 . Commissioner Mouriquand asked what the applicant's Quimby
requirements were. Staff replied they had not calculated the
fees yet. Commissioner Mouriquand suggested staff investigate
Quimby Fee credits and in-lieu fees. Staff replied it had been
discussed that. Commissioner Mouriquand said if the structure
were kept as a single-family dwelling would there be
consideration, because of the opportunity to preserve the
structure with covenants, that would meet the Quimby
responsibility, although it would not be utilized as a public
building. Applicant said they have spoken to the City and the
City is not interested in obtaining this as a public building.
22. Commissioner Mouriquand said the development is not big
enough to justify it's own clubhouse and this building could not
be used as a clubhouse. The applicant said the City is not
interested in owning the residence. Commissioner Mouriquand
asked if the applicant was interested in developing the building
as a clubhouse. The applicant replied it would not be financially
viable to maintain the building.
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23. Commissioner Mouriquand said the best way to preserve a
building is to occupy it. She commented it would be best to
have a family living in it; it would be a travesty to have the
adobe demolished. She was in favor of preservation and
looking at some creative ways to preserve the building. She
suggested the applicant restore the house, sell it, get somebody
interested in living in a "historic gem", because it has value due
to its historicity. She then asked to look at the redesign.
24. Chairman Wilbur asked how many houses and lots were
involved. Commissioner Wright said 12 or 13.
25. Commissioner Wright said the Commission needs to be careful
about what it asks of everyone who comes to this Commission.
They did not ask anything be kept in the Point Happy Ranch
which he felt was very historical. On a piece of property this
small, in a gated community, in a cul-de-sac situation, it's not a
practical process. He said the Commission has to be consistent
about what they ask because on the Point Happy project they
did not ask, nor did we demand it. This is the first time this has
come up in this situation, other than Tradition.
26. Chairman Wilbur said he wasn't a Commission Member for most
of the processing of the Point Happy project. He did hear a lot
about the loss of historic structures in that development.
27. Commissioner Wright said the City suffered losses on projects
that were fairly large, such as the house on Madison Street that
was demolished to make way for the road. The City is losing
properties monthly in the Cove and no one is getting upset
about those. He is very adamant about preserving historic
structures, but if you have only 4.5 acres it also has to work for
everybody involved. This subject wasn't even brought up on
Point Happy, but the Commission is being adamant about this
property. To be retrofit this building it would be approximately
$875,000. To completely preserve this property, would not be
financial viable. If the Commission insists on preservation, the
developer will have to go to the City to purchase this property,
because the developer cannot sell or make any money on this
property. He said the Commission should look at the costs
involved.
28. Commissioner Sharp said he agreed with a lot of what
Commissioner Wright said and asked the applicant what design
style was being used for the other houses being built.
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Applicant replied it would be Tuscan and would not match the
adobe house. Commissioner Sharp asked if this would be a
gated community and inaccessible to the public. Applicant
replied yes. Commissioner Sharp commented he could see
where the preservation of the adobe building would cause a
problem. He asked if the building could be moved. The
applicant said it is not feasible. He said it was a shame the
applicant had not found out about the adobe building prior to
the purchase of the property. The applicant said regarding the
retrofitting of the property, they had a letter from their engineer
and had to ask their tenant to leave. They could not be
responsible for anyone living in that building. They could not
retrofit it, they could not demolish it, and they could not let
anyone live there. They are completely stuck.
29. Commissioner Wright said they cannot sell it now that it is a
matter of record. He said his attitude would be the applicant
go to the City and see if they want to purchase it, but other
than that there are not a lot of options.
30. Chairman Wilbur said he thought they had gone to the City and
the City wasn't interested in this property. Staff replied this
was an interpretation as to what the City Council may do. This
had not been presented to the Council and no official
determination had been made by the Council.
31. Commissioner Wright said that would be an ideal situation; the
applicants would get their money back and the City would get a
piece of historic property they can turn into some kind of park.
The property would not work for the applicant's development,
and the Commission is stopping their development and tying
their hands from doing anything.
32. Commissioner Mouriquand read an e-mail from Greg Butler of
the Building and Safety Department, City of La Quinta, which
said the decision to retrofit or demolish the structure was the
applicant's decision and gave no official opinion from a
structural engineer's report. The City is not mandating retrofit.
33. Commissioner Wright said it's not just about the retrofit it's also
the fact when you develop a 4.5 acre parcel, you need to
develop enough lots to make the project profitable. If the
Commission's recommendation is for total preservation, this
could turn the project into an undevelopable venture. It could
make a great park if the City would purchase and develop it.
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34. Commissioner Sharp asked the applicant if the structure was
demolished would they go ahead with the project. The applicant
replied yes.
35. Commissioner Mouriquand said she disagreed. She said it is
possible to redesign the project as shown in the two examples
provided. She wanted to make a comment about the statement
"making consistent decisions" saying whatever decisions this
body has made in the past on preservation whether correct or
not, in light of this Commission's duty, that's no reason to
perpetuate making bad decisions. It is entirely possible for the
applicant to have a money-making subdivision, on this size
acreage and still achieve preservation. The client asked how
Commissioner Mouriquand would recommend this be done.
Commissioner Mouriquand said she would like to finish her
comments as this was a public meeting. She continued by
saying anyone who buys property without thoroughly
researching it is a fool. And she couldn't find it within her to
make an allowance for a developer who buys a piece of
property without doing thorough research as to what's on it and
answering the feasibility and whether or not he wants to tackle
the project. The Commission's purview is to seek preservation
and those kinds of things. It's not to excuse poor purchasing
decisions of property and then try to make an immediate
decision at the eleventh hour and let the applicant demolish a
historic property. She said that was not something she could
ethically go with. The Commission needed to exhaust
preservation options and other mitigation and money should not
be an issue here. So she could not vote in favor of demolition of
this structure, not at this point in time. There needs to be more
research done and more exploration of the re-design of this
project. Both of the examples shown are probably doable.
36. Commissioner Wright asked the applicant if he knew there was
a Historic Preservation Commission in La Quinta before they
bought the property. The applicant replied he did not.
Commissioner Wright stated that the applicant purchased the
property in the County, or Coachella, or Indio, this building
would already be demolished. It was unfair to call the applicant
foolish and to tell them this was a bad purchase, when they
didn't know there was a Commission, nor did they know these
properties were protected. They probably had no clue. They
saw a property with an old structure and anywhere else in this
Valley it would probably be demolished. I think the Commission
needs to understand the dollar and the way the entitlement
process works and what it takes to make money on a project.
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You can not take four or five lots out of a 13-lot development
and make any money on that project. It is financially
impossible. He said if Commissioner Mouriquand had a way to
make the project financially viable he would love to know how
she would do it.
37. Commissioner Mouriquand said the financial obligations of the
applicant were not her concern. Preservation can be expensive
and she still stood on her statement
that a wise person purchases a piece of property after they
have done research and some due diligence so they understand
what they have. She said she still thought there were doable
options that could be researched. She asked if there were any
other adobes in La Quinta.
38. Chairman Wilbur replied there was a mention of one down the
street.
39. Commissioner Sharp said that would be a good cause for
preservation. His asked if this adobe was a good historic
example, or just another adobe house.
40. Commissioner Mouriquand asked the consultant, Robert S.
White, if this was a good example of a traditional adobe. He
replied they believe this particular building was a surviving
example of the last phase of traditional adobe construction in
the Valley. He then detailed the features of this structure that
were notable and explained this structure was actually a hybrid.
41 . Commissioner Sharp asked if this was the last adobe in the
area. Mr. White replied there is another adobe a short distance
to the west, not on this property, but he had not had the
opportunity to walk in and assess it. It appeared to be of later
construction. Commissioner Sharp asked if the consultant had
made a survey of other adobe structures in the City. Mr. White
replied he had not.
42. Commissioner Wright said the City's survey was not complete
and that was part of the problem, which also puts the burden
upon the developers to decide what type of due-diligence they
are supposed to do. This property is not even listed in the City
survey because the property was annexed. He said the
Commission definitely needs to be preservationists but they
need to look at the Community and what the issues were now.
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43. Commissioner Sharp asked if this was 100% traditional adobe
house, would it then have more value than a transitional house.
Mr. White said not necessarily. He said personally, he found it
interesting because it was transitional. He had not run across
one quite like this one.
44. Commissioner Mouriquand said because of it's uniqueness it
becomes more significant and valuable. Mr. White replied they
do know there is an architectural nuance in this building which
was probably the mark of the architect, or the builder, it was a
reversed angle on the lintel above the doors and windows which
are identical to the ones on the museum in Indio. Unfortunately
they hit a dead end on locating the architect. They were
fortunate enough to find someone who knew quite a bit about
the way it had been put together and asked them who the
architect was. They didn't know, but were able to offer the
information that the laborers were local residents.
45. Commissioner Sharp asked if there was a picture of the lintel.
Mr. White directed him to Page 38 of the report.
46. Mr. White said one of the primary goals regarding a building is
who built it and when. They were able to find out when, and
who commissioned it. It was a Mr. West, who they believed to
be a physician from Los Angeles, but were unable to locate the
architect.
47. Commissioner Mouriquand said before the meeting started she
was able to go to the Community Development Department and
view a series of photos taken by staff from an interior walk-
through. She was extraordinarily impressed as to how nice the
interior of this structure was. She asked staff if there is a way
to share those photos with the Commissioners. Staff replied
they could be printed up.
48. Commissioner Sharp asked if there was a plan for the house.
Mr. White said they were unable to obtain the plans. The house
was occupied by a tenant and numerous animals.
49. Chairman Wilbur asked if you take the adobe structure without
the office and the garage, does it still affect your lots in terms
of the same amount of space. Applicant said that was taken
into consideration.
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50. Commissioner Puente commented demolition should be the last
solution. There should be other ways to preserve the last of the
few remaining structures of this type in La Guinta.
51. Commissioner Sharp said the only positive suggestion he'd
heard was to turn the project into a park.
52. Commissioner Mouriquand said if the project was a private,
gated community the public would not have access to it and it
could not be used as a park.
53. Commissioner Wright said he meant the City should buy the
whole property and turn it into a City park. It is undevelopable
as it is. He did not think the Commission made a mistake with
how they handled the Point Happy Ranch project, even though
it was their wish to retain some of the very famous buildings,
they still determined they should be demolished. It was given a
lot of thought and consideration, but there was no reason for it
to be there. The Commission ought to be concentrating on the
homes being lost everyday in the Cove, including the adobes
and houses built in the 1920's. He said the Commission needs
to be consistent.
54. Commissioner Sharp said the homes in the Cove have frontage
on the road and people are going by everyday, but this project
is out-of-the-way. It needs to be preserved.
55. Commissioner Wright said preservation is a very important part
of this Commission, but it also comes down to is it feasible and
workable for all parties involved. Preservation works great for
the City, but what do you do with this thing. This becomes a
worthless piece of property for the applicant, and who's going
to maintain it now that the applicant cannot get out of the
property because of this public meeting. It is not developable.
56. Commissioner Mouriquand said she disagreed entirely and said
the property was developable.
57. Commissioner Wright said it is not developable from a financial
standpoint. He said Commissioner Mouriquand did not know
anything about the financial standpoint of development and he
did. Commissioner Mouriquand said she did know a little
something about it. Commissioner Wright said he apologized,
but said it is not financially feasible to develop this property as
Commissioner Mouriquand suggested, and make a profit on
eight lots.
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58. Commissioner Mouriquand said it was not the purvue of this
Commission to accommodate a developer's profit plan.
59. Commissioner Sharp said the reason to preserve this building is
due to its location but it may not be possible because property
is so expensive.
60. Chairman Wilbur said earlier the Commission was discussing the
option of getting some type of accommodation from the City.
He suggested the applicant look at the design even more
creatively with the possibility the City would be amenable to
offering an accommodation to assist in preservation.
61. Commissioner Sharp said the applicant has already worked on a
re-design and it didn't work very well due to the fact the streets
need to go around. The designs are not attractive.
62. Chairman Wilbur said he thought the applicant should make an
effort to try further redesign of the project while
accommodating this building. He asked the applicant if that was
possible.
63. The applicant replied they have done many layouts and none of
them worked out. The layouts they presented to the
Commission were the best ones available. The re-design does
not work out financially or aesthetically. Commissioner
Mouriquand asked if it did not work out financially, but still had
possibilities for preservation. The applicant replied it does not
work out financially.
64. Commissioner Mouriquand said the Commission does not enter
into discussion of finances. She said the Commission was
interested in preservation.
65. Commissioner Sharp said the discussion was not about money,
it's about how you configure the roads while preserving this
building.
66. Applicant said the project next door was beautiful and no one
would want to buy their project with a house in the middle.
67. Commissioner Mouriquand said maybe there shouldn't be
houses there. Maybe this is such a unique property it needs to
be looked at in its entirety, not just the structure on it.
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68. Commissioner Sharp said. as a park, it works.
69. Commissioner Mouriquand asked staff if the question of
obtaining this property had been considered by the City Council.
Staff replied the City Council had not reviewed this project in
any manner.
70. The applicant said they had discussed offering the property to
the City and were told the City was not interested in the
property.
71 . Commissioner Mouriquand said this would be a decision to be
made by the City Council.
72. The applicant said they had never dealt with this type of
problem before and asked for direction on what to do since they
are losing money every month. They are stopped on this
property because somebody thinks this building is historical.
73. Commissioner Wilbur asked when the property had been
purchased. The applicant replied a year-and-a-half ago.
Commissioner Wilbur asked if the property had been annexed by
La Guinta at the time of the purchase.
The applicant said it was already in La Guinta. The applicant
said this property with 17 homes would bring the City property
tax about $200,000 per year. That is a lot of income lost to
the City if this project is not built.
74. Chairman Wilbur asked staff for direction. Staff said they are
looking to the Commission for direction, seeking
recommendation, and the applicant is seeking advice. Chairman
Wilbur asked if the staff would take this issue to the Council.
Staff explained what the client had to do and the appeal options
available to the Council.
75. Commissioner Mouriquand asked if there was an EIR. Staff
replied no. Staff said an EIR could be done within six months.
Commissioner Mouriquand asked if that would be a focused
EIR. Staff replied yes.
76. Commissioner Mouriquand said she was in favor of waiting for
the evaluation and discussion of the EIR before making a
decision on this property.
77. Commissioner Sharp asked for an explanation of an EIR.
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78. The applicant asked what the EIR would say.
79. Commissioner Mouriquand asked if it would go through SHPO.
Staff said they would have to research this.
80. Applicant asked what would be different with an EIR. Staff
explained an EIR would be necessary in order to go forward
with the demolition permit and the project as proposed.
Commissioner Wright explained that was not the Commission's
determination, it was a CEQA requirement. The applicant said
staff mentioned the structural issue was enough. Applicant said
they were going to keep the building empty, board up the house
and leave it empty until a decision is made.
81. Commissioner Mouriquand explained they have to go through a
Certificate of Appropriateness which would come back to this
Commission.
82. Commissioner Mouriquand suggested exploring the option of
the City purchasing the property for various uses. She said she
would like to know what Council's opinion would be. That is a
decision only made by Council. Another option would be to
explore an EIR. Another choice would be to maintain the
property as an estate as a single family use, with preservation
of the adobe, without the subdivision.
83. Commissioner Wright said he personally believes the City would
not be interested in purchasing a two-million-dollar property. His
recommendation would be to obtain detailed photographic
records of the property prior to demolition.
84. Commissioner Mouriquand said she was in favor of the
photographic documentation. At this point, she could not vote
in favor of demolition and would like to review an EIR and
reconsider this item after that review and have any other
options presented that can be identified.
85. Staff said this body is a recommending body and the
Commissioner will be making a recommendation to the City
Council concerning historic sites and areas to be considered for
listing on the La Quinta Historic Resources Survey, and for
considering the project recommendation for how to proceed and
that's what staff was seeking in the Commission's motion.
86. Commission Mouriquand asked if staff would be taking any
aspect of this project to the Council before an EIR was done.
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Staff said they will not be taking this to the Council until they
have a Draft EIR. Commissioner Mouriquand commented the
Commission was some months away from making a final
decision on this project. If it has been determined an EIR is
necessary, then the process needs to run its course.
87. There being no further discussion on this matter it was moved
and seconded by Commissioners Mouriquand and Sharp to
continue this item until a draft EIR is available for review by the
Commission.
88. Applicant asked if they have to wait until the EIR before going
to the Council. Staff said this item procedurally will go to the
Planning Commission and then the Council after the Historic
Preservation Commission. Applicant said it would show there
was an adobe house and then what. Commissioner Mouriquand
said the applicant could then evaluate the options as presented
and any others that can be identified as reasonable options.
89. Mr. White had a question regarding approaching the City
Council about purchasing this property.
90. Commissioner Mouriquand said all they had now was a staff
opinion and she didn't know if staff wanted to suggest this as a
Study Session question, and that option can be determined as
an option for the EIR. You have your various mechanisms for
taking policy questions to Council. Staff said that was
something the applicant could pursue and there are avenues to
proceed. Applicant asked what were the avenues. Staff said
they would discuss that with the applicant outside of the
Commission meeting.
91 . There being no further comments. It was moved and seconded
by Commissioners Mouriquand and Sharp to continue this report
until an EIR can be completed. AYES: Commissioners
Mouriquand, Puente, Sharp, and Chairman Wilbur; NOES:
Commissioner Wright.
B. Paleontological Evaluation Report and Mitigation Plan For a 4.84 Acre
Parcel
Applicant: David Maman Designs
Consultants: Robert White and John Minch for Eilar Associates
Location: South side of Avenue 58, West of Monroe Street.
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1 . Associate Planner Andrew Mogensen presented the information
contained in the staff report, a copy of which is on file in the
Community Development Department.
2. There being no further comments. It was moved and seconded by
Commissioners Mouriquand and Sharp to adopt Minute Motion 2006-
008 accepting the results of the Cultural Resources Survey Report as
submitted. Unanimously approved.
VI. CORRESPONDENCE AND WRITTEN MATERIAL:
A. Commissioner Sharp asked the City's policy for travel expenses. Staff
said it was included in the report which was distributed to the
Commission, and read the section of the policy that was applicable.
VII. COMMISSIONER ITEMS:
A. Commissioner Mouriquand read part of an article called "Mea Culpa:
How I Infected Cultural Resource Management With Archaeobias" and
gave a brief description.
B. Commissioner Puente asked about the status of the Historic Survey.
Staff said CRM was chosen as the consultant to do the survey and
explained what areas would be covered and the type of work to be
done. Staff expects the survey to be completed by the end of
September and draft copies would be supplied to the Commissioners.
The suggestion was made to include the Sphere of Influence area in
the survey and to do a one-page flyer for real estate agents to inform
them of the procedures necessary to develop a piece of historic
property.
VIII. ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business, it was moved and seconded by
Commissioners Wright and Sharp to adjourn this Regular Meeting of the
Historic Preservation Commission to the next Regular Meeting to be held on
July 20, 2006. This meeting of the Historic Preservation Commission was
adjourned at 4:37 p.m. Unanimously approved.
Submitted by:
(llUttL/lU /)l1Jvu
Carolyn \fIl8lker
Secretary
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