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2005 03 17 HPC Minutes MINUTES HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MEETING A Regular meeting held at the La Quinta City Hall Session Room 78-495 Calle Tampico, La Quinta, CA. March 17, 2005 This meeting of the Historic Preservation Commission was called to order by Chairman Allan Wilbur at 3:03 p.m. He then led the flag salute and asked for the roll call. I. CALL TO ORDER A. Pledge of Allegiance. B. Roll Call. Present: Commissioners Mouriquand, Puente, Sharp, Wright, and Chairman Wilbur Staff Present: Community Development Director Doug Evans, and Secretary Carolyn Walker II. PUBLIC COMMENT: III. CONFIRMATION OF THE AGENDA: IV. CONSENT CALENDAR: It was moved and seconded by Commissioners Puente and Mouriquand to approve the minutes of February 17, 2005 as submitted. Unanimously approved. V. BUSINESS ITEMS: A. Paleontolo(Jical Resources Assessment Report: Applicant: Monroe Dates Archaeological Consultant: CRM TECH (Harry Quinn, Geologist/Paleontologist) Location: West side of Monroe Street at Avenue 61 (60-995 Monroe Street) 1. Community Development Director Doug Evans presented the information contained in the staff report, a copy of which is on file in the Community Development Department. P:\CAROL YN\Hist Pres Com\HPC 3-17-Q5.doc Historic Preservation Commission March 17. 2005 2. Commissioner Mouriquand commented the report was dated 2003 and wanted to know why the Commission was receiving it now. Staff deferred the question to Michael Hogan, of CRM TECH, who replied they submitted the report to their client in 2003. Commissioner Mouriquand asked if there had been a problem with the report. Mr. Hogan replied he had discussed the report with staff and there were no issues. He commented the client may have now been at a stage in the project where they realized they had to submit the report. 3. Commissioners Sharp, Puente, and Wright had no comments. 4. Commissioner Mouriquand asked what was being done with all the shells being collected. Staff replied they are temporarily being stored at City Hall until a permanent location has been determined for curation. Staff suggested the Commission and the consultants might want to give staff direction as to the disposition of the shells. 5. Commissioner Mouriquand asked Mr. Hogan if he had any recommendations for the City. Mr. Hogan replied the idea of collecting the shells is to find out more about micro environments. Commissioner Mouriquand suggested a data base needed to be created. Commission discussion followed regarding the amount of shells collected and whether representative samples should be kept. Mr. Hogan said the protocol of shell collection followed the San Bernardino County Museum's recommendations. Commissioner Mouriquand suggested the staff could write to the Museum regarding the significance of the shells and ask for their recommendations for collection and storage of them. 6. Commissioner Puente asked if the City was going to build a museum for items such as these shells. Commissioner Mouriquand said they were eventually, but until then the pot sherds and shells should not be disposed of, due to lack of curation space. She was not recommending the City throw the shells away. 7. Staff asked if the Commissioners would like to add that recommendation to the motion. It might be prudent to make a request then if we are not going to collect, hold, and store the P:\CAROLYN\Hisl Pres Com\HPC 3-17-05.doc 2 Historic Preservation Commission March 17, 2005 shells per this recommendation; we would bring that back to the Commission. Staff emphasized resources would not be destroyed without the Commission's approval. 8. Commissioner Mouriquand said she was not discussing destruction but better curation such as the museum where they might be used for research. Staff replied they have contacted the San Bernardino Museum and their conclusion was they didn't want them. Staff said the major question is how many of these resources should be maintained. Staff suggested they come back to the Commission, on a policy basis, for concurrence before altering the reports or doing something with present resources. 9. Commissioner Mouriquand commented she was not a paleontologist, and did not want to influence the City's decision on the disposition of cultural resources. Staff suggested the Commission could ask CRM TECH's representative to write a report on that issue. Commissioner Mouriquand agreed suggesting the consultant ask Harry Quinn, their Paleontologist for his input. 10. Michael Hogan commented he'd heard Mr. Quinn discussing this matter in the context of subspecies. Commissioner Mouriquand said a paleontologist's opinion would be invaluable regarding whether the City should save these resources and how they should be saved. 11. Chairman Wilbur added the recommendations needed to be from someone who was qualified to determine retention or destruction of resources. He commented the City Council would not like to hear that the City got rid of all the fossil shells without any consideration other than the knowledge of the Commission and a few research firms. 12. Commissioner Mouriquand suggested the library, or new museum, could have some sort of educational interpretive exhibit and use them as display. 13. Staff summed up the Commission's suggestions as 1). Staff is to contact the San Bernardino Museum regarding curation guidelines; 2). The project consultant, or their Paleontologist, P:\CAROl YN\Hist Pres Com\HPC 3-1 7-05.doc 3 Historic Preservation Commission March 17, 2005 shall respond to the curation questions in a brief, concise letter report; and, 3). At the conclusion of those two tasks this item will be returned to the Commission to establish a policy that is City-wide. Changes should not be made project by project and consultants that work in La Quinta should be advised if the City is not going to collect and store these resources. Upon completion of the City policy, consultants may then be able to make a determination in the field, when they make their report, as to whether or not the resources are significant. For purposes of this report, the current recommendations will remain the same. 14. Commissioner Mouriquand said the Commission has never had a professional Paleontologist address, or educate them. It would be nice to invite one sometime to educate the Commission on the significance of these questions. Staff stated they would do a little research on this. 15. It was moved and seconded by Commissioners Puente and Mouriquand to adopt Minute Motion 2005-006 accepting the results of the Paleontological Resources Assessment Report for Monroe Dates with the following additions: A. Staff is to contact the San Bernardino Museum for their protocol on collection and storage of said fossil, or shell, remains from various sites. B. The CRM TECH project consultant (or Paleontologist) will write a concise letter report on the issue of collection, retention and curation of resources. C. At the conclusion of items A and B, the information will be returned to the Commission for purposes of establishing a City-wide policy. Unanimously approved. B. Phase I Cultural Resources Assessment of a 28.73 Acre Property and Phase II Test of Site CA-RIV-7138/H: Applicant: Monroe Dates, LLC Archaeological Consultant: Archaeological Advisory Group for Phase I and CRM TECH for Phase II P:\CAROLYN\Hist Pres Com\HPC 3-17-05.doc 4 Historic Preservation Commission March 1 7, 2005 Location: West side of Monroe Street at Avenue 61 (60-995 Monroe Street). 1. Community Development Director Doug Evans presented the information contained in the staff report, a copy of which is on file in the Community Development Department. 2. Staff had some additional comments on the demolition of the project buildings and the pool. The area had been annexed into the City and was not part of any previous surveys. There was no documentation for staff members to check prior to the issuance of a demolition permit. Therefore, they did not ask questions about the date of construction, or age of structures, which would have triggered an inquiry. Staff has met with various department staff members regarding procedures relative to these types of resources. Staff is currently working with the Building Director to find out the best training program for interception of historic properties. Future surveys in areas annexed would be included in the permitting system which would help in locking up those particular sites. When a permit is requested the system will not allow issuance, and that's the best way to prevent demolition of the site. To the best of our knowledge there were no known resources on the site relative to significance of structures, but again once they're demolished it's difficult to determine whether or not they were significant. The City is very concerned about what occurred but is trying to fix the problem so it does not happen in the future. 3. Commissioner Wright said the Commission had this same problem a year ago on a property that was demolished. Staff informed the Commission that no demolition permits were going to be issued unless the Historic Preservation Commission was informed of this. This does not appear to be the case. The problem is the Commission was never aware of this report which was done in July 2003. They didn't have the date of the demolition and were unable to do any documentation prior to destruction of the site. However, the Commission does need to be assured that the permitting problem has been solved as promised. No demolition permits were to be issued unless they went through the Commission. One of the problems is that there are current City of La Quinta properties and future- annexation properties. The best way to handle the problem P:\CAROL YN\Hist Pres Com\HPC 3*17-05.doc 5 Historic Preservation Commission March 17, 2005 would be to have no demolition permits issued unless the properties were at least surveyed by a staff member to determine if there were any structures on the property. The project would not have been stopped, but there should be an opportunity to prepare a photographic journal of the structures on the property before demolition. Projects would not be held up because of this but the documentation would be done. The structures may not have been historically significant, but they needed to be in our Historical Survey photographically. If not, then they are lost forever. 4. Commissioner Mouriquand said historically the Building Department has issued demolition permits with the Commission finding out after the fact. So this has been an ongoing problem. She commented on some of her mother's memories of events at the Roarke Ranch. She said it was a well-known local gathering place and a cultural resource. It was strictly local people, and of local significance. 5. Commissioner Wright agreed it was a real cultural resource in the community and if the house was built in 1925, it would have been about the period of time that our early history starts architecturally, in this Valley. This concern was brought up almost a year ago, and apparently there needs to be better communication with the building Department to let them know that the Commission can take a more proactive stance if needed to involve SHPO. He gave an example of the SilverRock project and the proposed demolition of the Ahmanson Ranch building, which is now the clubhouse. The demolition permits were in, but the Commission invoked its rights, as a Certified Local Government (CLGl, and the City had the project reviewed by a staff person. The project was then fully documented. 6. Commissioner Wright said this is a very sensitive issue and he did not want to see another property demolished without a photographic record, or the Commission and staff being aware of it. There are very little cultural and historic architectural resources left in this community and they all need to be documented. It's just as important as the Paleontological and Archaeological documentation. P:\CAROL YN\Hist Pres Com\HPC 3-17-05.doc 6 Historic Preservation Commission March 17, 2005 7. Commissioner Mouriquand commented if the property had been assessed it might have come back as having no significance. However, this property would have provided information on early settlement patterns and land uses and the information in and of itself has value. Possibly demolitions should be made subject to CEQA. 8. Staff suggested the Commission may not want to react with the recommendation they review all demolition permits, because of the number of very routine permits which could include the demolition of an interior wall in a contemporary building. Staff asked the Commission to allow them to work with the other departments on a minimum of three items: 1). Instituting a "holds and notices" permit system for staff to see and report back on when it's done; 2). The City will be educating department staff, on a regular basis, to be inquisitive about demolition permits; and 3), Staff will be instituting a system that should avert as many potential problems until every property in town is surveyed and all efforts have been exhausted to try to identify resources. However, humans make mistakes and something could occur that because of withholding information at the counter, lack of familiarity with the location, or any number of other circumstances, a permit could get issued for something that may have a potential historic element, Every reasonable measure will be utilized. What occurred last year may have been due to the start-up of the system and turnover in staff. It may not have been fully put into place. A new permit feature has been added that allows us to be a little bit tighter on how we set up the permit system. Please allow staff a little time to work with Building & Safety and we'll report back at the next meeting as to our program to try to eliminate this to the greatest degree possible. If you've ever worked a permit center there are a lot of different ways to present something that something could have a problem, or concern, and it is expressed to you as there nothing there and the volume of work that we do you have to rely on people's good faith efforts to be truthful and up front. And in everything you do you expect our consultants to have good eyes, good research abilities, analytical skills, and reporting techniques because we can't be there for everybody, but we will make it better than it is today. P:\CAROL YN\Hist Pres Com\HPC 3-17~05.doc 7 Historic Preservation Commission March 17, 2005 9. Commissioner Wright asked if all the buildings on the historical survey had already been included in the system. Are they red- flagged so when someone comes in and asks for a demolition permit and the people behind the counter can see these are historical sites? Staff replied they had not had a chance to inspect the system, yet, but would get an answer and advise the Commission. 10. Commissioner Wright said it was extremely important that the properties photographed and documented in the survey be include 11 . Staff replied all of the information is not currently in the system, but will be added in the fashion described. The system will then stop all permits until somebody is forced to do the research. 12. Chairman Wilbur asked if this was a software system. Staff replied yes, it's a Building Permit system that is usually described as "holds and notices". The City can put a hold on a permit because somebody hasn't paid a business license and the system will then freeze up. It is a new system and staff is still working to improve it. Meanwhile, the City does recognize the Commission's concerns and staff will look into the matter and report back with further information. 13. It was moved and seconded by Commissioners Wright and Puente to adopt Minute Motion 2005-007 accepting the Phase I Cultural Resources Assessment of a 28.73 Acre Property and Phase II Test of Site CA-RIV-7138/H as submitted. Unanimously approved. 14. It was moved and seconded by Commissioners Wright and Sharp to adopt Minute Motion 2005-008 accepting the Archaeological Testing and Evaluation Report - Site CA-RIV- 7138/H report as submitted. Unanimously approved. C. Historical/Archaeological Resources Survey Report for Tentative Tract Map 32979: Applicant: Foxx Homes (David Kulstad, Vice President) Archaeological Consultant: CRM TECH (Michael Hogan, Principal) Location: West of Washington Street and North of Avenue 47. P:\CAROLYN\Hist Pres Com\HPC 3-17-05.doc 8 Historic Preservation Commission March 17. 2005 1. Community Development Director Doug Evans presented the information contained in the staff report, a copy of which is on file in the Community Development Department. 2. Commissioner Puente commented on the difficulty in obtaining responses from the Native American Commission. 3. Commissioner Wright stated we must continue to make the effort, and it's up to the Agency to reply. 4. Commissioner Mouriquand added it is not incumbent upon the applicant, or the consultant to insure they actually receive a response, only that they submit a request for comments. 5. Commissioner Sharp had a question about location. Commissioner Wright outlined the area involved. 6. Commissioner Puente asked if there was a question about mitigation when this property was surveyed in 1991. She asked if that was why the applicant recommended limited archaeological monitoring. Mike Hogan (CRM TECH) replied there were sites recorded that had been tested. One of the sites was actually determined to be a historical resource and mitigated the impacts for that site. There still might be some other resources there and monitoring is recommended. 7. Commissioner Mouriquand made an observation about the property having a wind current that carries airborne or Aeolian sand, over the mountains and deposits it right on the project site. This development is going to be constantly fighting off the sand that's trying to bury them. It's a wind pattern phenomenon. 8. Staff replied the entire Coachella Valley has the same problem. The mountains are trying to fall down and the. Valley is filling up. The full environmental assessment on this property has not been completed yet. 9. Chairman Wilbur, Commissioners Sharp and Wright had no comments. P:\CAROL YN\Hist Pres Com\HPC 3.17-05.doc 9 Historic Preservation Commission March 17. 2005 10. It was moved and seconded by Commissioners Wright and Sharp to adopt Minute Motion 2005-009 accepting the Historical/Archaeological Resources Survey Report for Tentative Tract Map 32979 as submitted. Unanimously approved. VI. CORRESPONDENCE AND WRITTEN MATERIAL: VII. COMMISSIONER ITEMS: A. Tribal Consultation Guidelines (Interim) for Senate Bill 18 - Guidelines for consulting with various tribes. 1 . Staff gave a brief update on how SB 1 8 affects future general plan updates and planning guidelines. Staff asked the Commissioners to let staff know if they have any thoughts or ideas on this legislation and to be incorporated in the comments. Staff said in the future we can expect more legislation regarding cultural resources. Many Tribes are becoming much more sophisticated in reviewing what's going on with resources and developing an advocacy position. In the Coachella Valley we are ahead of some areas. Tribes such as the Agua Caliente are very active in reviewing cultural resources. 2. Commissioner Mouriquand asked how many Specific Plans were currently being processed because this applies to Specific Plans. Staff replied a small amount and most of them were very minor just a page or two. Commissioner Sharp asked if this memorandum pertained to all the tribes in the state, from north to south, not just the Coachella Valley. Staff replied yes. B. April 10th Field Trip 1. Commissioner Mouriquand discussed some of the areas the Commissioners would be visiting. 2. Chairman Wilbur confirmed the Commission would meet at City Hall at 8:00 a.m., April 10, 2005. 3. Staff discussed the Brown Act applications for the meeting and Commissioners were cautioned not to discuss Commission business while traveling to and from cultural sites. P:\CAROL YN\Hist Pres Com\HPC 3-1 7-05.doc 10 Historic Preservation Commission March 17, 2005 4. Commissioner Mouriquand said she had prepared handouts and would bring some artifacts, as well as some mesquite cookies for the Commissioners' enjoyment. 5. Commissioner Sharp asked if the tour would last around two hours. Commissioner Mouriquand replied it could be two hours. Chairman Wilbur thought it would be over by 11 :00 including travel time. Commissioner Sharp asked if they could invite outsiders. Staff replied it is a public meeting. There should be discussion and agreement upon on how many people would actually be invited. If anybody wanted to come they could. The City is not obligated to provide transportation for the public. 6. Commissioner Mouriquand cautioned everyone to bring boots, water, and wear common-sense hiking attire. 7. Chairman Wilbur efforts on this appreciation. thanked Commissioner Mouriquand for her tour. He expressed the Commission's VIII. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business, it was moved and seconded by Commissioners Sharp and Mouriquand to adjourn this Regular Meeting of the Historic Preservation Commission to the Special Meeting to be held on April 10, 2005. This meeting of the Historic Preservation Commission was adjourned at ~~:55 p.m. Unanimously approved. Submitted by: LruLdL/f-/ ![lr2t(;~jl- Carolyn/Walker Secretary P:\CAROL YN\Hlst Pres Com\HPC 3-17-05.doc 11