2005 03 17 HPC Minutes
MINUTES
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MEETING
A Regular meeting held at the La Quinta City Hall Session Room
78-495 Calle Tampico, La Quinta, CA.
March 17, 2005
This meeting of the Historic Preservation Commission was called to order by
Chairman Allan Wilbur at 3:03 p.m. He then led the flag salute and asked for the
roll call.
I. CALL TO ORDER
A. Pledge of Allegiance.
B. Roll Call.
Present: Commissioners Mouriquand, Puente, Sharp,
Wright, and Chairman Wilbur
Staff Present:
Community Development Director Doug
Evans, and Secretary Carolyn Walker
II. PUBLIC COMMENT:
III. CONFIRMATION OF THE AGENDA:
IV. CONSENT CALENDAR:
It was moved and seconded by Commissioners Puente and Mouriquand to
approve the minutes of February 17, 2005 as submitted. Unanimously
approved.
V. BUSINESS ITEMS:
A. Paleontolo(Jical Resources Assessment Report:
Applicant: Monroe Dates
Archaeological
Consultant: CRM TECH (Harry Quinn, Geologist/Paleontologist)
Location: West side of Monroe Street at Avenue 61 (60-995 Monroe
Street)
1. Community Development Director Doug Evans presented the
information contained in the staff report, a copy of which is on
file in the Community Development Department.
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2. Commissioner Mouriquand commented the report was dated
2003 and wanted to know why the Commission was receiving
it now. Staff deferred the question to Michael Hogan, of CRM
TECH, who replied they submitted the report to their client in
2003. Commissioner Mouriquand asked if there had been a
problem with the report. Mr. Hogan replied he had discussed
the report with staff and there were no issues. He commented
the client may have now been at a stage in the project where
they realized they had to submit the report.
3. Commissioners Sharp, Puente, and Wright had no comments.
4. Commissioner Mouriquand asked what was being done with all
the shells being collected. Staff replied they are temporarily
being stored at City Hall until a permanent location has been
determined for curation. Staff suggested the Commission and
the consultants might want to give staff direction as to the
disposition of the shells.
5. Commissioner Mouriquand asked Mr. Hogan if he had any
recommendations for the City. Mr. Hogan replied the idea of
collecting the shells is to find out more about micro
environments. Commissioner Mouriquand suggested a data base
needed to be created. Commission discussion followed
regarding the amount of shells collected and whether
representative samples should be kept. Mr. Hogan said the
protocol of shell collection followed the San Bernardino County
Museum's recommendations. Commissioner Mouriquand
suggested the staff could write to the Museum regarding the
significance of the shells and ask for their recommendations for
collection and storage of them.
6. Commissioner Puente asked if the City was going to build a
museum for items such as these shells. Commissioner
Mouriquand said they were eventually, but until then the pot
sherds and shells should not be disposed of, due to lack of
curation space. She was not recommending the City throw the
shells away.
7. Staff asked if the Commissioners would like to add that
recommendation to the motion. It might be prudent to make a
request then if we are not going to collect, hold, and store the
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shells per this recommendation; we would bring that back to
the Commission. Staff emphasized resources would not be
destroyed without the Commission's approval.
8. Commissioner Mouriquand said she was not discussing
destruction but better curation such as the museum where they
might be used for research. Staff replied they have contacted
the San Bernardino Museum and their conclusion was they
didn't want them. Staff said the major question is how many of
these resources should be maintained. Staff suggested they
come back to the Commission, on a policy basis, for
concurrence before altering the reports or doing something with
present resources.
9. Commissioner Mouriquand commented she was not a
paleontologist, and did not want to influence the City's decision
on the disposition of cultural resources. Staff suggested the
Commission could ask CRM TECH's representative to write a
report on that issue. Commissioner Mouriquand agreed
suggesting the consultant ask Harry Quinn, their Paleontologist
for his input.
10. Michael Hogan commented he'd heard Mr. Quinn discussing this
matter in the context of subspecies. Commissioner Mouriquand
said a paleontologist's opinion would be invaluable regarding
whether the City should save these resources and how they
should be saved.
11. Chairman Wilbur added the recommendations needed to be from
someone who was qualified to determine retention or
destruction of resources. He commented the City Council
would not like to hear that the City got rid of all the fossil shells
without any consideration other than the knowledge of the
Commission and a few research firms.
12. Commissioner Mouriquand suggested the library, or new
museum, could have some sort of educational interpretive
exhibit and use them as display.
13. Staff summed up the Commission's suggestions as 1). Staff is
to contact the San Bernardino Museum regarding curation
guidelines; 2). The project consultant, or their Paleontologist,
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shall respond to the curation questions in a brief, concise letter
report; and, 3). At the conclusion of those two tasks this item
will be returned to the Commission to establish a policy that is
City-wide. Changes should not be made project by project and
consultants that work in La Quinta should be advised if the City
is not going to collect and store these resources. Upon
completion of the City policy, consultants may then be able to
make a determination in the field, when they make their report,
as to whether or not the resources are significant. For purposes
of this report, the current recommendations will remain the
same.
14. Commissioner Mouriquand said the Commission has never had a
professional Paleontologist address, or educate them. It would
be nice to invite one sometime to educate the Commission on
the significance of these questions. Staff stated they would do
a little research on this.
15. It was moved and seconded by Commissioners Puente and
Mouriquand to adopt Minute Motion 2005-006 accepting the
results of the Paleontological Resources Assessment Report for
Monroe Dates with the following additions:
A. Staff is to contact the San Bernardino Museum for their
protocol on collection and storage of said fossil, or shell,
remains from various sites.
B. The CRM TECH project consultant (or Paleontologist) will
write a concise letter report on the issue of collection,
retention and curation of resources.
C. At the conclusion of items A and B, the information will
be returned to the Commission for purposes of
establishing a City-wide policy.
Unanimously approved.
B. Phase I Cultural Resources Assessment of a 28.73 Acre Property and
Phase II Test of Site CA-RIV-7138/H:
Applicant: Monroe Dates, LLC
Archaeological Consultant: Archaeological Advisory Group for Phase I
and CRM TECH for Phase II
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Historic Preservation Commission
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Location: West side of Monroe Street at Avenue 61 (60-995
Monroe Street).
1. Community Development Director Doug Evans presented the
information contained in the staff report, a copy of which is on
file in the Community Development Department.
2. Staff had some additional comments on the demolition of the
project buildings and the pool. The area had been annexed into
the City and was not part of any previous surveys. There was
no documentation for staff members to check prior to the
issuance of a demolition permit. Therefore, they did not ask
questions about the date of construction, or age of structures,
which would have triggered an inquiry. Staff has met with
various department staff members regarding procedures relative
to these types of resources. Staff is currently working with the
Building Director to find out the best training program for
interception of historic properties. Future surveys in areas
annexed would be included in the permitting system which
would help in locking up those particular sites. When a permit
is requested the system will not allow issuance, and that's the
best way to prevent demolition of the site. To the best of our
knowledge there were no known resources on the site relative
to significance of structures, but again once they're demolished
it's difficult to determine whether or not they were significant.
The City is very concerned about what occurred but is trying to
fix the problem so it does not happen in the future.
3. Commissioner Wright said the Commission had this same
problem a year ago on a property that was demolished. Staff
informed the Commission that no demolition permits were going
to be issued unless the Historic Preservation Commission was
informed of this. This does not appear to be the case. The
problem is the Commission was never aware of this report
which was done in July 2003. They didn't have the date of the
demolition and were unable to do any documentation prior to
destruction of the site. However, the Commission does need to
be assured that the permitting problem has been solved as
promised. No demolition permits were to be issued unless they
went through the Commission. One of the problems is that
there are current City of La Quinta properties and future-
annexation properties. The best way to handle the problem
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would be to have no demolition permits issued unless the
properties were at least surveyed by a staff member to
determine if there were any structures on the property. The
project would not have been stopped, but there should be an
opportunity to prepare a photographic journal of the structures
on the property before demolition. Projects would not be held
up because of this but the documentation would be done. The
structures may not have been historically significant, but they
needed to be in our Historical Survey photographically. If not,
then they are lost forever.
4. Commissioner Mouriquand said historically the Building
Department has issued demolition permits with the Commission
finding out after the fact. So this has been an ongoing problem.
She commented on some of her mother's memories of events at
the Roarke Ranch. She said it was a well-known local gathering
place and a cultural resource. It was strictly local people, and
of local significance.
5. Commissioner Wright agreed it was a real cultural resource in
the community and if the house was built in 1925, it would
have been about the period of time that our early history starts
architecturally, in this Valley. This concern was brought up
almost a year ago, and apparently there needs to be better
communication with the building Department to let them know
that the Commission can take a more proactive stance if needed
to involve SHPO. He gave an example of the SilverRock project
and the proposed demolition of the Ahmanson Ranch building,
which is now the clubhouse. The demolition permits were in,
but the Commission invoked its rights, as a Certified Local
Government (CLGl, and the City had the project reviewed by a
staff person. The project was then fully documented.
6. Commissioner Wright said this is a very sensitive issue and he
did not want to see another property demolished without a
photographic record, or the Commission and staff being aware
of it. There are very little cultural and historic architectural
resources left in this community and they all need to be
documented. It's just as important as the Paleontological and
Archaeological documentation.
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7. Commissioner Mouriquand commented if the property had been
assessed it might have come back as having no significance.
However, this property would have provided information on
early settlement patterns and land uses and the information in
and of itself has value. Possibly demolitions should be made
subject to CEQA.
8. Staff suggested the Commission may not want to react with
the recommendation they review all demolition permits, because
of the number of very routine permits which could include the
demolition of an interior wall in a contemporary building. Staff
asked the Commission to allow them to work with the other
departments on a minimum of three items: 1). Instituting a
"holds and notices" permit system for staff to see and report
back on when it's done; 2). The City will be educating
department staff, on a regular basis, to be inquisitive about
demolition permits; and 3), Staff will be instituting a system
that should avert as many potential problems until every
property in town is surveyed and all efforts have been
exhausted to try to identify resources. However, humans make
mistakes and something could occur that because of
withholding information at the counter, lack of familiarity with
the location, or any number of other circumstances, a permit
could get issued for something that may have a potential
historic element, Every reasonable measure will be utilized.
What occurred last year may have been due to the start-up of
the system and turnover in staff. It may not have been fully put
into place. A new permit feature has been added that allows us
to be a little bit tighter on how we set up the permit system.
Please allow staff a little time to work with Building & Safety
and we'll report back at the next meeting as to our program to
try to eliminate this to the greatest degree possible. If you've
ever worked a permit center there are a lot of different ways to
present something that something could have a problem, or
concern, and it is expressed to you as there nothing there and
the volume of work that we do you have to rely on people's
good faith efforts to be truthful and up front. And in everything
you do you expect our consultants to have good eyes, good
research abilities, analytical skills, and reporting techniques
because we can't be there for everybody, but we will make it
better than it is today.
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9. Commissioner Wright asked if all the buildings on the historical
survey had already been included in the system. Are they red-
flagged so when someone comes in and asks for a demolition
permit and the people behind the counter can see these are
historical sites? Staff replied they had not had a chance to
inspect the system, yet, but would get an answer and advise
the Commission.
10. Commissioner Wright said it was extremely important that the
properties photographed and documented in the survey be
include
11 . Staff replied all of the information is not currently in the system,
but will be added in the fashion described. The system will
then stop all permits until somebody is forced to do the
research.
12. Chairman Wilbur asked if this was a software system. Staff
replied yes, it's a Building Permit system that is usually
described as "holds and notices". The City can put a hold on a
permit because somebody hasn't paid a business license and
the system will then freeze up. It is a new system and staff is
still working to improve it. Meanwhile, the City does recognize
the Commission's concerns and staff will look into the matter
and report back with further information.
13. It was moved and seconded by Commissioners Wright and
Puente to adopt Minute Motion 2005-007 accepting the Phase I
Cultural Resources Assessment of a 28.73 Acre Property and
Phase II Test of Site CA-RIV-7138/H as submitted.
Unanimously approved.
14. It was moved and seconded by Commissioners Wright and
Sharp to adopt Minute Motion 2005-008 accepting the
Archaeological Testing and Evaluation Report - Site CA-RIV-
7138/H report as submitted. Unanimously approved.
C. Historical/Archaeological Resources Survey Report for Tentative Tract
Map 32979:
Applicant: Foxx Homes (David Kulstad, Vice President)
Archaeological Consultant: CRM TECH (Michael Hogan, Principal)
Location: West of Washington Street and North of Avenue 47.
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1. Community Development Director Doug Evans presented the
information contained in the staff report, a copy of which is on
file in the Community Development Department.
2. Commissioner Puente commented on the difficulty in obtaining
responses from the Native American Commission.
3. Commissioner Wright stated we must continue to make the
effort, and it's up to the Agency to reply.
4. Commissioner Mouriquand added it is not incumbent upon the
applicant, or the consultant to insure they actually receive a
response, only that they submit a request for comments.
5. Commissioner Sharp had a question about location.
Commissioner Wright outlined the area involved.
6. Commissioner Puente asked if there was a question about
mitigation when this property was surveyed in 1991. She
asked if that was why the applicant recommended limited
archaeological monitoring. Mike Hogan (CRM TECH) replied
there were sites recorded that had been tested. One of the
sites was actually determined to be a historical resource and
mitigated the impacts for that site. There still might be some
other resources there and monitoring is recommended.
7. Commissioner Mouriquand made an observation about the
property having a wind current that carries airborne or Aeolian
sand, over the mountains and deposits it right on the project
site. This development is going to be constantly fighting off the
sand that's trying to bury them. It's a wind pattern
phenomenon.
8. Staff replied the entire Coachella Valley has the same problem.
The mountains are trying to fall down and the. Valley is filling
up. The full environmental assessment on this property has not
been completed yet.
9. Chairman Wilbur, Commissioners Sharp and Wright had no
comments.
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10. It was moved and seconded by Commissioners Wright and
Sharp to adopt Minute Motion 2005-009 accepting the
Historical/Archaeological Resources Survey Report for Tentative
Tract Map 32979 as submitted. Unanimously approved.
VI. CORRESPONDENCE AND WRITTEN MATERIAL:
VII. COMMISSIONER ITEMS:
A. Tribal Consultation Guidelines (Interim) for Senate Bill 18 - Guidelines
for consulting with various tribes.
1 . Staff gave a brief update on how SB 1 8 affects future general
plan updates and planning guidelines. Staff asked the
Commissioners to let staff know if they have any thoughts or
ideas on this legislation and to be incorporated in the
comments. Staff said in the future we can expect more
legislation regarding cultural resources. Many Tribes are
becoming much more sophisticated in reviewing what's going
on with resources and developing an advocacy position. In the
Coachella Valley we are ahead of some areas. Tribes such as
the Agua Caliente are very active in reviewing cultural
resources.
2. Commissioner Mouriquand asked how many Specific Plans were
currently being processed because this applies to Specific Plans.
Staff replied a small amount and most of them were very minor
just a page or two. Commissioner Sharp asked if this
memorandum pertained to all the tribes in the state, from north
to south, not just the Coachella Valley. Staff replied yes.
B. April 10th Field Trip
1. Commissioner Mouriquand discussed some of the areas the
Commissioners would be visiting.
2. Chairman Wilbur confirmed the Commission would meet at City
Hall at 8:00 a.m., April 10, 2005.
3. Staff discussed the Brown Act applications for the meeting and
Commissioners were cautioned not to discuss Commission
business while traveling to and from cultural sites.
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4. Commissioner Mouriquand said she had prepared handouts and
would bring some artifacts, as well as some mesquite cookies
for the Commissioners' enjoyment.
5. Commissioner Sharp asked if the tour would last around two
hours. Commissioner Mouriquand replied it could be two hours.
Chairman Wilbur thought it would be over by 11 :00 including
travel time. Commissioner Sharp asked if they could invite
outsiders. Staff replied it is a public meeting. There should be
discussion and agreement upon on how many people would
actually be invited. If anybody wanted to come they could. The
City is not obligated to provide transportation for the public.
6. Commissioner Mouriquand cautioned everyone to bring boots,
water, and wear common-sense hiking attire.
7.
Chairman Wilbur
efforts on this
appreciation.
thanked Commissioner Mouriquand for her
tour. He expressed the Commission's
VIII. ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business, it was moved and seconded by
Commissioners Sharp and Mouriquand to adjourn this Regular Meeting of the
Historic Preservation Commission to the Special Meeting to be held on April
10, 2005. This meeting of the Historic Preservation Commission was
adjourned at ~~:55 p.m. Unanimously approved.
Submitted by:
LruLdL/f-/ ![lr2t(;~jl-
Carolyn/Walker
Secretary
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