2008 04 17 HPC MinutesMINUTES
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MEETING
A Regular meeting held in the Study Session Room
at the La Quinta City Hall
78-495 Calle Tampico, La Quinta, CA
April 17, 2008
This meeting of the Historic Preservation Commission was called to order by
Chairman Wilbur at 3:01 p.m. who asked for the roll call.
CALL TO ORDER
A. Roll Call.
Present: Commissioners Puente, Redmon, Sharp, Wright,
and Chairman Wilbur
Absent: None
Staff
Present: Planning Director Les Johnson, Principal Planner
Stan Sawa, Principal Planner Andrew Mogensen,
Consulting Planner Nicole Criste (Terra Nova
Planning, Executive Secretary Carolyn Walker, and
Secretary Monika Radeva.
II. PUBLIC COMMENT: None
III. CONFIRMATION OF THE AGENDA: Confirmed
IV. CONSENT CALENDAR:
A. It was moved and seconded by Commissioners Puente/Redmon to
approve the minutes of March 20, 2008, as submitted. Unanimously
approved.
V. BUSINESS ITEMS:
A. Cultural Resources Phase I Survey fora 4.84 Acre Parcel
Applicant: David Maman Designs
Consultant: Terra Nova Planning & Research
Historic Preservation Commission
April 17, 2008
Archaeological
Consultant: Archaeological Associates (Robert S. White, et al-
for Eilar Associates
Location: South side of Avenue 58, west of Monroe Street
Principal Planner Andrew Mogensen presented the information
contained in the staff report, a copy of which is on file in the Planning
Department.
Applicant David Maman and Archeologist Robert White were
introduced.
Commissioner Wright noted that Commissioner Redmon was not a
member of the Historic Preservation Commission when this project
was previously reviewed. He continued to say his position remained
the same as it was when this first came to the Commission in 2006.
It would be wonderful to be able to preserve it, however, it would be
cost-prohibitive for the applicant. He pointed out this is a small
project and conservation of the building would have been more
appropriate if it was a project on a large area of land. He suggested a
detailed photographic record of the building would be the most logical
and practical decision.
Commissioner Redmon said she had a different approach to this
situation since she was not involved in the project previously. She
acknowledged the financial lack of viability for preservation of a
building in the middle of such a small project. However, it was her
responsibility to make sure structures of important historic significance
are properly taken care of. She stated, based on the report, the
building had some examples of uniqueness, individuality, and
significance from an architectural and historical stand point and said
there should be a way to physically preserve them, while allowing this
development to go forward. She pointed out it would be unreasonable
to place the burden of restoration on the developer due to the
deterioration and alteration of the structure which detracted from its
historic significance. She questioned the validity of the argument that
there is no sense in keeping the building because it is an adobe since
adobe buildings deteriorate over time. Using that reasoning, nothing
adobe would ever be preserved or restored.
Commissioner Redmon asked if there was away to ask for City
Council funding for a combination photographic/preservation record of
certain specific elements, such as the inverted lintels, poured adobe,
and the cobblestone fireplace, and to extract certain archaeologically
significant items. She suggested the possibility of moving the wall
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Historic Preservation Commission
April 77, 2008
with the lintel and the cobblestone fireplace to a different location
where they could be preserved and remain accessible to the public.
Preservation of the building within the development would not allow
public access while relocation would preserve those elements and
allow the applicant to develop the site.
Commissioner Sharp asked where the photographic records of the
building would be stored. Principal Planner Mogensen responded the
records would be kept at the City Museum.
Commissioner Sharp elaborated on Commissioner Redmon's
suggestion to move some of the historically significant features from
the property to a different location. He said it could be very difficult to
move the cobblestone fireplace from its current location. Relocation
could cause severe structural damage and reconstruction would be
very costly. Commissioner Sharp noted the lintels while
architecturally unique, could easily be duplicated. He also added that
lintels are a common feature in many other houses in the valley and a
photographic record would be sufficient.
Archaeologist David White stated the fact the house was constructed
from adobe was significant as adobe houses tend to "melt" over time
and did not weather well during earthquakes. The uniqueness of the
building was established primarily on its construction. After closer
inspection, a few little nuances were identified, such as the inverted
lintels (a signature of the architect or the builder.) Mr. White stated he
was not sure if the lintel was adobe brick skin and mortar or a wooden
beam. The building was occupied during their inspection and they
would have had to hammer on the building and possibly cause damage
to investigate any further. If the lintel were to be a wooden one, it
could easily be extracted and preserved during demolition. Mr. White
pointed out that no structural steel was used in building and the
cobblestone fireplace is extremely heavy. If money were no object, a
very large crane could be used, however, the cost would be
prohibitive. In addition, the structure is very brittle and could easily
break apart.
Mr. White also stated the building layout was very traditional IL-
shaped) and there were contemporary additions made.
Mr. White added that an interesting link with history is that the person
who commissioned the building was a very early sub-divider and
speculator who was building houses on little ranchos. This was an
indication of an early attempt to create little get-away ranchos for
people from the Los Angeles area.
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April 17, 2008
Commissioner Sharp asked about this structure being unique as an
adobe house versus an adobe brick house. Mr. White mentioned the
Chapin Adobe he had worked on in 1989 in Indian Wells had been
built out of adobe bricks. The bricks had been made by pouring mud
into wooden plank forms. The adobe in question was a lot different
from the typical adobe found in other parts of California since it was
made of very fine grain clay as opposed to a clay mix with grass and
straw.
Commissioner Sharp asked Mr. White if one was better than the other.
Mr. White responded, in either instance, the mixture made for a very
brittle brick and it was simply what they had to work with. Mr. White
added that he thought the building was poured to a point, due to the
fact that no joints were found. There was the possibility that the
joints were there, but had melted perhaps during construction when it
was skinned with mortar. Ultimately, the only way to be able to tell
for sure would be, during demolition or to open up a section of the
wall. He believed it was poured since it was constructed in the 1920s
as there were a lot of houses with concrete slabs. This builder had a
firm understanding of modern construction techniques, but had limited
resources.
Commissioner Sharp asked about the architect who would be in
charge of the property documentation.
Mr. White responded the architectural historian would be David Van
Horn, who has extensive experience in this area.
Mr. White explained that with any historic building project there are
two elements of importance: 1) when it was built and 2) who the
architect was. In this case, he was unable to find out what year it
was built.
Commissioner Sharp asked if the architect of this adobe had any
reputation.
Mr. White responded it was not the work of an architectural master
since there would have been a lot more ornate architectural features
incorporated into it. The single story structure was built pre-
depression with a traditional L-shape layout and had elements of a
traditional California-type rancho with the builder's own little twist.
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April 17, 2008
Commissioner Puente pointed out the report was put together well,
however, the same issues still existed as in June of 2006. She
expressed her hope that more options would have been presented, but
there had not been any. She stated she reviewed the report and
understood both the concerns of the developer and the Commission.
She mentioned her strong background in Art History and her European
Roots, which strongly influenced her opinion of preserving the adobe
at hand. She pointed out there were many characteristics of this
building which had been identified as unique and historically significant
to the point that it would be eligible for the California registry as a
historic monument. She said an attempt to save the building, as it is,
should be made as she considered it to be very significant for the
Coachella Valley. At the very least as Commissioner Redmon
suggested, an attempt should be made to save certain features.
Commissioner Puente would like the City Council to intervene and take
some action in the preservation of the adobe. She said she did not feel
comfortable with approving the demolition and wanted to explore
further preservation options.
Chairman Wilbur stated the responsibility of the Historic Preservation
Commission remains the same as it did during the previous meeting in
2006. He said there are other options that could have been explored
to preserve the building. Many times, in the past, buildings with
similar structure, age, and range had been lost, which should have
been preserved. He would favor the preservation of the building or
certain elements as suggested by Commissioner Redmon. He
acknowledged the financial constraints involved in such an attempt, as
well as the financial hardship the applicant has suffered due to
previous delays However, he pointed out it was the duty of the
Historic Preservation Commission to ensure preservation of historically
significant elements. He understood a complete photographic record
would be made, but wanted to exhaust all other possibilities for
preservation. He wanted a careful evaluation of the actual value of
the structure as a genuine article and its indigenous character to the
Valley. He would like to look for a way to preserve some elements of
it without losing the historic context which would happen with
photographs. His position remained the same as before, which was
against demolition of the building. He realized the importance of this
issue to the applicant, but asked the applicant to understand the
importance of the preservation of the building
Commissioner Wright said that there were a few things that needed to
be looked at. He agreed important structures had been lost in the past,
however, they brought the City's attention to such actions and now
the Commission is notified prior to issuance of any demolition permit.
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Historic Preservation Commission
April 17, 2008
Commissioner Wright pointed out the Commissioners should look at
the property in question, and that it would be worthless as a
developable land if the building, which is right in the middle of the
site, was preserved. He noted that the applicant had stated previously
he had no idea of the possible historic significance of the building
when he purchased the site. If he had known, he would not have
purchased the land for development. Commissioner Wright continued
to say Commissioner Redmon lives in an adobe built in 1938, in the La
Quinta Cove. There are about 30 of them left in the La Quinta Cove.
However, the Historic Preservation Commission has no authority over
any of them and any of those adobes could be demolished by the
owners if they wanted to build something else. The only authority the
Commissioners had was to try to persuade the owners to maintain the
historical integrity of the structure. The Archaeologist has already
stated this adobe is impossible to move and is already melting down.
It is right in the middle of the parcel, which makes the land
undevelopable if the adobe has to be preserved. In addition, even if
the building was preserved, it would not be accessible to the general
public as it would be in a gated community. He referenced the
situations at the Point Happy and Tradition developments stating they
were of much larger size.
Commissioner Wright stated that the Commission has the duty to
preserve the historic context and historic viability of the City, but
should keep in mind all of the adobe structures in the La Quinta Cove
which could be demolished tomorrow without the Commission's
approval. It would not be fair to put such a burden on the applicant,
the Cove residents are aware of their structures' significance, but they
could alter these structures without any problem. This creates a
double standard and he encouraged the Commissioners to carefully re-
think it. He added nothing would ever be done with the property
because it would not be financially viable for anyone to spend
5800,000 to 51,000,000 dollars to retrofit and clean up the property.
Commissioner Wright stated he has looked at the property and does
not see any historical value with the exception of some interior
features. He emphasized the Commission should be responsible from
the standpoint of both historic preservation and development. The
economics of this situation should be taken into consideration when
making a decision.
Commissioner Redmon said she would like to refer back to her original
suggestion, however, if the cobblestone fireplace or the lintel were not
unique features and physically impossible to move, then she agreed
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Historic Preservation Commission
April 17, 2008
there was no financial viability in preservation. But she would like to
make sure the lintel is preserved.
Mr. White replied such a determination, as to whether or not the
feature could be relocated without damage was outside of his
expertise, but his gut feeling was it would fall apart.
Commissioner Redmon asked if there was a way to include relocation
as a permit condition if it is viable. If it was found to be impractical it
would be dismissed.
Commissioner Wright asked if the Commissioners had been out to the
site to look at the building.
Commissioner Redmon replied she had not.
Commissioner Wright suggested it would be a good idea to visit the
site. He pointed out the photographic record put together for
historical documentation would be very extensive and detailed with
site surveys, archaeological research, etc. He suggested a possible
recording of it could be made on DVD.
Commissioner Wright said he would hate to see the building go, but it
was not viable to save it. In addition, the building had been altered.
The building would disintegrate if not retrofitted, and it might still
disintegrate even if it was retrofitted. He referenced similar buildings
in the city. He pointed out preservation of this building was not
economically viable for the developer or the citizens of La Quinta.
Commissioner Redmon asked for clarification on all or nothing
preservation. Commissioner Wright responded all or nothing because
of the size of the project.
Commissioner Redmon said she understood that, but wanted to have
the lintel saved if possible.
Mr. White said his team could try it, but didn't know if it was possible.
Commissioner Sharp stated in his past profession, the lintel and
cobblestone fireplace could be re-created out of fiberglass. A replica
would be indestructible and light and could be painted to look exactly
like the original.
Planning Director Les Johnson pointed out there was a supplemental
report completed which identified "the softness of the adobe matrix
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April 17, 2008
from which the bricks were fashioned appears to have melted together
thus eliminating the tell-tale joints between many of the bricks."
Mr. White stated his research team had been oscillating on this and
thought it was important to include this in the report since poured
adobe was rare.
Planning Director Johnson said he wanted to make reference to that,
for the record, since there was discussion about it. He added
regarding the reverse lintels, the report states "upon further
examination it appears that these splayed bevels may merely represent
a construction technique adapted to working with adobe." He said
the original study identified there may be significance to these features
as something special and unique, but the subsequent report states it is
only the fact that it is an adobe.
Commissioner Redmon responded that was just semantics. The
supplemental report states, regarding the lintels, that "...may merely
represent... Simply because there were two different reports without
a definitive conclusion and the architect could not be found, at the
moment, she would not like to find out later it was, in fact,
significant. Therefore, if the developer was in the process of
demolition and it was determined there was no way to remove and
preserve it for no more than 510,000, then it wouldn't be preserved.
Commissioner Redmon said there were many things identified as
special to this particular house and she was reluctant to go forward
with the demolition if preservation of some unique elements was
economically viable.
Planning Director Johnson stated if the Commission recommended this
building was not of significance to retain, it would still be considered
and ultimately decided upon by City Council. He suggested and gave
an alternative example of the decorative wall along Avenue 58, west
of Madison. This concept could probably be adopted by the developer
and something similar could be done with inserts in the wall of the
development which mimicked features of the home that have been
discussed today. He said something could be placed at the entrance
of the development explaining the characteristics of the wall.
Commissioner Wright said that approach was supposed to be used
with the Point Happy gates, but they were never incorporated and the
gates were most likely thrown away.
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April 17, 2008
Commissioner Wright said if something of this nature was imposed on
the developer, who would know of it except for the Commission. He
emphasized again it was going to be a gated community and any
preservation efforts would not be available for public view.
Planning Director Johnson pointed out some elements could be
incorporated into the exterior wall, which added to the character of
the project and the history behind it.
Commissioner Puente asked if the style of the development had been
determined as Tuscan. Applicant's representative, Mr. Ofer Dayan
replied the style had not yet been determined. Consulting Planner
Nicole Criste, Terra Nova Planning, clarified the style was discussed
during the first project meeting.
Mr. Maman said he checked the City's History Survey after the last
meeting and it did not include his property.
Commissioner Wright commented on the fact the survey was
informational and most people don't know it exists. He reiterated his
comments on Cove homes and the double standard. He encouraged
the Commissioners to visit the site.
Mr. Dayan stated the property had burned a few times and was rebuilt
with additions.
Mr. White touched upon the reuse of some of the project elements.
He said he agreed with Commissioner Wright that it could be very
problematic. However, Mr. White mentioned former projects where
the re-use of some of the materials was successful.
Mr. White suggested the utilization of some architectural features
could be done through construction of a monument or decorative walls
at the entrance. He said the lumber from the window and lintel might
be salvageable, but taking it out as an intact section of the wall did
not seem quite possible.
Mr. Ofer Dayan mentioned that in the last meeting the City had
offered to move the house for free.
Mr. Maman stated he would love to be able to preserve the building,
but it was not feasible. He asked the Commission to please let him
demolish it so that he could continue with his development plans. Mr.
Maman said he was willing to attempt the preservation of certain
historically significant elements if possible, based on the advice of his
consultant, David White; to recreate the elements as suggested earlier.
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April 17, 2008
Mr. Maman said he would be willing to have an expert on-site during
the demolition process to advise him on what elements could be
saved.
Commissioner Sharp said there should also be a designer on-site, in
addition to the expert, who would know what to do with the
architectural components that were removed.
Chairman Wilbur thanked Mr. Maman for his willingness to cooperate.
He asked staff if an addendum could be added.
Consulting Planner, Nicole Criste said a condition of approval could be
added requiring supervision of the demolition and preservation of
elements. She gave the example of the cobblestones being used in
the posts at the entrance holding the gate, and other elements
preserved in other components of the construction.
Mr. White pointed out this approach to the demolition process would
be more costly.
Commissioner Wright said the house would have to be dismantled by
hand and be treated as an archaeological part of the project. This
type of demolition is very costly.
Commissioner Wilbur asked if anyone else had a comment on this
suggestion.
Commissioner Redmon clarified the type of preservation she was
favoring was not preserving the materials of the historically significant
elements, but rather the elements as they were. However, if in the
interim the architect of the building was discovered and it turned out
the only reason for the use of the cobblestone was because there
wasn't enough wood, then that would be an indication the fireplace
did not have any value.
Commissioner Wright said the suggested idea of preserving the
materials of the elements was wonderful, however, he would not vote
to add that to the recommendations. It would impose an economic
hardship on the applicant without valuable merit.
There being no further comments it was moved and seconded by
Commissioners Wright/Sharp to approve Minute Motion 2008-001
accepting the Cultural Resources Phase I Survey as recommended by
staff.
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April 17, 2008
ROLL CALL: AYES: Commissioners Redmon, Sharp, and Wright.
NOES: Commissioner Puente and Chairman Wilbur. ABSENT:
None. ABSTAIN: None.
VI. CORRESPONDENCE AND WRITTEN MATERIAL: None
VII. COMMISSIONER ITEMS:
Chairman Wilbur asked Staff about the travel arrangements for the upcoming
California Historic Preservation Conference.
Executive Secretary Carolyn Walker provided the Commissioners with
packets containing information on their travel arrangements.
Planning Director Les Johnson suggested the Commissioners and Principal
Planner Stan Sawa meet one night of the Conference for dinner in order to
discuss the different events and workshops.
Commissioner Wright stated that the Commissioners have done that in past
conferences.
Commissioner Wright commented on the excellent job staff has done in
putting together the arrangements for the conference.
VIII. ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business, it was moved and seconded by
Commissioners Wright/Sharp to adjourn this Meeting of the Historic
Preservation Commission to the next Regular Meeting to be held on May 15,
2008. This meeting of the Historic Preservation Commission was adjourned
at 4:23 p.m. Unanimously approved.
by:
Monika Rad
Secretary
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