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2008 10 14 PC MinutesMINUTES PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING A regular meeting held at the La Quinta City Hall 78-495 Calle Tampico, La Quinta, CA October 14, 2008 IV V CALL TO ORDER 7:04 P.M. A. This meeting of the Planning Commission was called to order at 7:04 p.m. by Chairman Ed Alderson who to led the flag salute. B. Present: Commissioners Katie Barrows, Paul Quill, Mark Weber, Robert Wilkinson, and Chairman Ed Alderson. C. Staff present: Planning Director Les Johnson, Planning Manager David Sawyer, Assistant City Attorney Michael Houston, Associate Planner Jay Wuu, Assistant Planner Eric Ceja, and Executive Secretary Carolyn Walker. PUBLIC COMMENT: None CONFIRMATION OF THE AGENDA: Confirmed CONSENT CALENDAR: Chairman Alderson asked if there September 23, 2008. There being Commissioners Barrows/Weber to Unanimously approved. were any changes to the Minutes of none, it was moved and seconded by approve the minutes as submitted. PUBLIC HEARINGS: A. Conditional Use Permit 2008-115; a request of Palm Springs Cultural Center for consideration of an Outdoor Certified Farmers Market, located at 78-100 Main Street; Old Town La Quinta in the La Quinta Village. Chairman Alderson opened the public hearing and asked for the staff report. P:\Reports - PC\2008\10-28-OS\Final Minutes 141408.doc Planning Commission Minutes October 14, 2008 Assistant Planner Eric Ceja presented the information contained in the staff report, a copy of which is on file in the Planning Department. Commissioner Weber wanted to confirm the organization in charge of running this market is the same one currently offering a farmer's market in Palm Springs. He said they had a track record in the Coachella Valley and asked if this market would be similar to that one in Palm Springs. Staff replied it would be similar. He also asked if the La Quinta Chamber of Commerce would be involved. Staff said they were not aware of any involvement with the Chamber. Commissioner Barrows asked about recycling and asked if the City had a food recycling program. Planning Director Les Johnson said there was no program in place at this time. Commissioner Barrows asked about green waste and how it would be collected. Staff replied the applicant would be better able to answer any green waste questions. Commissioner Quill said this was a good thing. He wondered why the event was only limited to 40 stalls. He asked if this number could be expanded if necessary. Staff replied this was the number proposed and would fit comfortably within the Main Street area. The number 40 was based on conversations with the applicant. If the applicant wants to expand and it's within the area identified, that would be possible. However, if it does go beyond identified areas we'd have to re-visit the applicant's plans and bring them back to the Commission. Chairman Alderson commented on the staff report, page 3, which said there were "...concerns over site aesthetics and pedestrian safety, staff has recommended that limitation be placed on all on-site vehicles located within the event boundaries during the hours the event is open to the public." He asked what limitations staff was referring to. Assistant Planner Ceja said that comment referred to limitations being placed on vehicles on-site (vendor trucks). In staff's conversations with the applicant it was their understanding that some of the produce vendors would need their vehicles on-site. Concerns for pedestrian safety and aesthetics have caused staff to ask that those vehicles would at least be turned off, and not running, during the event. Chairman Alderson asked if this was a six month application with the ability to extend. Planning Director Johnson said this was a five year PdReporis - PC~2008,10-28-081Final Minutes 10-14-08 for, 2 Planning Commission Minutes October 14, 2008 permit with an annual review. It is a seasonal event which will require an annual discussion between the applicant and staff to work out any on- going problems. If there were no issues they would be allowed to continue on through the next season. Chairman Alderson asked staff to confirm they would meet annually with the applicant and correct any deficiencies/problems before allowing the following year's event. Planning Director Johnson corrected the earlier statement of five years and explained it was a total of four years, but confirmed the opportunity to interact and debrief annually. Obviously, if there were issues of compliance they would be addressed during the season. The City is taking a very conservative approach since this is a new venue. Chairman Alderson commented that once the application was approved, if the event did not work out, staff had no way to cancel it. Planning Director Johnson said that was correct unless they were out of compliance with their conditions of approval, or the Municipal Code with reference to potential health, safety, or welfare issues. It could then be brought back to the Commission for consideration of revocation of the use permit. He did caution that it would have to be a substantive cause, and not because someone does not like the event. Commissioner Quill commented on the former Main Street Marketplace and its success. He said it had been a great opportunity to bring people downtown and it was a lot of fun. He went over some of the details of that street fair and the fact there is precedent for this type of event in the Village. There being no further questions of staff, Chairman Alderson asked if there were any applicant representatives or comments. Mr. Paul Palodichuk, Manager -Certified Farmers Market of Palm Springs, 2300 Baristo, Palm Springs, CA, introduced himself and gave a brief explanation of his plans and the definition of vendors versus booths. Commissioner Quill asked if staff understood the applicant's definition of vendor numbers versus amount of booths. Staff replied they did. Commissioner Wilkinson asked if the applicant saw a need for vehicles to be parked in the immediate area of the booths; such as a refrigerated P.,Reports-'C~200II`,i J-28-0&Fnni Minutes 10-1A-08.dor, 3 Planning Commission Minutes October 14, 2008 vehicle. Mr. Palodichuk replied there is a need to have the produce trucks in close proximity to refill the booths. He then explained the layout and how the vehicles would interact with the vendor stalls. Commissioner Wilkinson asked where the vehicles would be placed. Mr. Palodichuk said they would be parked behind the tents. Commissioner Wilkinson said the report included the allowance of other craft vendors and wanted to know what type of vendors this referred to. Mr. Palodichuk said that would only be during the holidays, and even then the items would be plant-based; such as soap or wreaths. The rest of the time the only items allowed would be food. He then explained how the events would be run. Commissioner Barrows had a question about recycling. She said one of the exhibits made reference to recycling. She asked for more detail about the recycling condition and food waste disposal. Mr. Palodichuk said there is some food waste generated, but would be mainly left over items, and clippings; such as carrot tops, etc. He said he was unaware of any Burrtec green waste program. At the end of the market they will work with various organizations who glean from the market and the produce people can donate their waste to those organizations. They are working with Burrtec to have co-mingled bins to recycle the plastic. He added they are trying to encourage the farmers to eliminate the use of the plastic bags and would like to work toward "No Plastic" whatsoever and have consumers use cloth bags. Commissioner Weber had previously heard the applicant's presentation at another meeting. He complimented the applicant on his business plan and the fact this would be a "true" farmers market. He did comment that most of the vendors are from outside the area, and hoped that the vendor list would begin to expand to more local agriculture. He commented on the end of market recycling and its usefulness to the needier residents in the East Valley, such as those at the Coachella Valley Rescue Mission. He did note that the applicant was listed as anon-profit (501 c3). Mr. Palodichuk said they also had a Board Member present at the meeting. He noted there were supporters from Old Town which was a positive. Chairman Alderson said this promised to be a wonderful event. He commented that everyone he spoke to seemed to be in favor of the project. He said he did check to see if any of the functions, or vendors, would be in direct conflict with any of the full-time businesses in Old P:AReports - PC~2008~10-28-OSVRnal Minutes 10-14-08.doc 4 Planning Commission Minutes October 14, 2008 Town. If there was any competition, it would be so slight that the current tenants of Old Town would be willing to overlook that in favor of the amount of people brought in to shop. This should also help their businesses. There being no further applicant comments Chairman Alderson asked if there was any public comment. Leslie Locken, Old Town La Quinta, gave a presentation about how excited the businesses in Old Town were to have the farmer's market and how it could provide more foot traffic to help existing businesses in the Village. She commented on her visit to the farmers market in Palm Springs and had nothing but positive comments to make. She added there would be music provided at the event. In response to earlier comments she hoped the market would be so successful that it spilled over to Calle Estado and incorporated the entire Village of La Quinta. She has been working on a marketing plan to create different levels of sponsorship. One of those levels would include the exchange of imprinted cloth logo bags for the plastic bags, which would be recycled, at the end of the market. The City would then have the only farmers' market in the Valley that was completely green. Chairman Alderson asked if there was adequate staff, security and maintenance. Ms. Locken said yes. She used the example of the "Art Under The Umbrellas" events regularly held in Old Town. Kay Wolff, 77-227 Calle Ensenada, La Quinta, CA 92253, spoke in support of the effort. She said this was a wonderful thing for the community and this was the kind of project, bringing quality produce to a community, that supports the concept of buying local. It would be nice to have as many local vendors as possible. The farmers market complements the Old Town businesses. She liked that the promoters were non-profit and had a very positive track record. Commissioner Quill commented on using local growers and the fact there are very few truck farmers left in the Coachella Valley. Most of the agribusiness is on a large scale. Mr. Palodichuk said that was a true statement. He said they tried to include farms which were within a 150 mile radius and are trying to make this as local as possible. Denise DuBarry Hay, 49-455 Coachella Drive, La Quinta, CA 92253, Board Member of the Palm Springs Cultural Center, said she has seen this P'\Reports - PC'.2008~10-28-08`Fnal Minutes 10-14-03 AoC 5 Planning Commission Minutes October 74, 2008 project grow from the very beginning to the current Palm Springs market. She said they have fabulous products and the location will be convenient and enhance the Village. Stuart Green, 50-235 Doral Street, La Quinta CA 92253, said he did not sense any opposition and felt there was tremendous support for this proposition. He added he believed in the community and there were some of the best of golf, business, etc. He is a working partner in the Old Town Coffee Company and said having this event will infuse more capital into their businesses and employ more people. Christine Lada, Lily of the Valley floral shop in Old Town, said she supported the event as a florist, didn't have any concerns, and thought the event would be great for all the shops at Old Town. Jeff Grunion, 53-475 Avenida Ramirez, La Quinta CA 92253, said he has three suites in Old Town. He said he was speaking for the businesses in Old Town when he said what was good for Old Town was good for the community. There being no further questions, or public comment, Chairman Alderson closed the public participation portion of the meeting and opened the matter for Commission discussion. Commissioner Weber said obviously there is good support from the public. It is a good project. It fits a need, in the right location and it should be a great asset to La Quinta. He is fully supportive of the project. Commissioner Alderson echoed Commissioner Quill's comments on the maximum of 40 stalls being amended to more if the event is a success. He asked if the word "maximum" could be removed. Planning Director Johnson said the City's concerns were that the Fire Departments requirements were met and the applicant does not expand the venue beyond the limit defined on the map right now. If you wish to go larger than that, then certainly. There was no further discussion, and it was moved and seconded by Commissioners Barrows/Wilkinson to approve Resolution 2008-029 recommending approval of Conditional Use Permit 2008-115 with the condition amended by staff, to allow for more than 40 stalls through staff review. Unanimously approved. P,~Raports - PC~2003~ 10 28-08~~rinai Mmu ms 10-1 .-08 [ioc Planning Commission Minutes October 14, 2008 B. Conditional Use Permit 2008-114; a request for consideration of an Outdoor Market located at 77-880 Calle Tampico; Benjamin Franklin Elementary School in the La Quinta Village. Chairman Alderson opened the public hearing and asked for the staff report. Assistant Planner Eric Ceja presented the information contained in the staff report, a copy of which is on file in the Planning Department. Commissioner Wilkinson was concerned about the two venues occurring at the same time. Staff responded there was no conflict with pedestrian traffic between the two as the events were on different days (Saturday and Sunday). Commissioner Quill said he thought it would be a great opportunity. He did comment on better signage for the Village area. Commissioner Barrows said it looked great. Commissioner Weber said he thought there were a few distinct differences between this and the prior application. Chairman Alderson asked if the La Quinta Chamber of Commerce was involved in this event. Staff said no. Chairman Alderson had concerns about security and trash but said he would ask the applicant. He had comments about sales revenues and applications for business licenses. There being no further questions of staff, Chairman Alderson asked if there were any applicant representatives or comments. The applicant, Susan Weinstein, introduced herself and said she was available to answer questions. Commissioner Barrows complimented her on her business plan. Commissioner Weber said the applicant must have had some prior experience with a business plan and appeared to be very well versed working on a creative environment. He asked the applicant to explain her P~\Repons - PC~2008~10-28-08\Fnal Minuets 10-14-08.doc '] Planning Commission Minutes October 14, 2008 prior experience in working with abazaar-type market and asked what type of prior experience she had with an outdoor market. Ms. Weinstein explained her previous experience and background noting experience in the design and retail trade, but in an outdoor market environment. Commissioner Weber asked if the Principal of Benjamin Franklin, on behalf of the Desert Sands Unified School District, had signed off on a release on this application. Ms. Weinstein said yes. Commissioner Weber asked what type of non profit this was. Ms. Weinstein said it was a 501 c6. Commissioner Weber said this was a unique type of venue and he was concerned about maintaining a certain level of quality. He did not want to see this turn into a garage sale event. He asked if the Commission could suggest an administrative standards review because of the similarity between the two markets coming into the area at the same time. He was concerned that the applicant did not have prior experience in this type of market and wanted to make sure quality levels were upheld. He would like to see an administrative 90-day review by staff. He complimented the applicant for having staff on site, such as the accounting manager, to oversee the event. He liked the idea of the event but was concerned about maintaining La Quinta standards. Ms. Weinstein said she would like to assure the Commission that she had no interest in any type of garage-sale-type merchandising. She desires all custom work and wants to uphold high standards for items that are interesting and affordable. I have no desire to be involved in something that will affect her reputation. Chairman Alderson noted in the report that a name had yet to be established. He asked if she was going to use the words "flea market". Ms. Weinstein said she was not. This description came when she was putting together the business plan. Chairman Alderson said the applicant intended to provide 75 parking stalls. He said she currently had 60 vendors and he wanted to know where they were all going to park. Ms. Weinstein said she was hoping to park across the street since she does not want them to park around the vendors. P:~Reports - PCA2008~~10-28-08~Pin~l Minutes 10-14-08.dor, 8 Planning Commission Minutes October 14, 2008 Chairman Alderson was concerned that the vendors would be parking in all the available downtown parking spots. He said she might want to direct the vendors to the City parking lot. He did not want to see parking become a problem. There being no further applicant comments Chairman Alderson asked if there was any public comment. Leslie Locken, Property Manager for Old Town La Quinta, said she had some concerns. She was under the impression this event was going to be a flea market. She wanted to make sure they did not compete with Old Town businesses. She questioned the type of products to be sold, and how they would compete with Old Town businesses. She was also concerned about the parking and how that would affect Old Town. Bonnie Wall, Owner of Just Bonnie @ Home in Old Town, said she has a lot of concerns about this market. She explained the type of quality retail business she maintains and said she could work at the College of the Desert (C.O.D.) swap meet and make money which the City would never see. She was concerned about vendors that come in and park close to their merchandise. She gave the example of trucks delivering at her store. She was concerned about the fact the Old Town retailers pay monthly rent and give back revenue to the City. She asked the Commission to take into consideration, when the economy is struggling, why they would want to take money away from the Old Town merchants to give to people who don't even live in the City. Carla Gramer, 78100 Main Street, La Quinta, CA 92253, a retailer in Old Town, said she has been there for five years. She has people traveling from Los Angeles to shop in her store. She carries major designer clothing. She was concerned about have a flea market, C.O.D.-type atmosphere across the street from her store on a Saturday. Ms. Weinstein said it has always been her philosophy that the more folks who come to the area the more it provides the opportunity to do more business. She never anticipated taking business away from other retailers. Commissioner Quill asked if the applicant had paid any fees to Desert Sands Unified School District for the use of their facilities. Ms. Weinstein replied they had not asked her for any money. Commissioner Quill asked if the applicant had spoken to the School District. Ms. Weinstein said she P:AReports-PC~2008V10-28-081Rnal Minutes 10-14-08.dor, 9 Planning Commission Minutes October 14, 2008 had been to the School District several times. Commissioner Quill asked if she was not paying anything to the school for the use of their facilities who was going to benefit from this event. She replied, after everyone was paid, she had several charities she hoped to donate to. Commissioner Quill asked where she was going to allow the vendors to park their vehicles. Ms. Weinstein she had hoped they would be able to utilize the vacant lots across the street. Commissioner Quill asked if she knew who owned those lots and had she contacted the owners for permission to park the vendor vehicles. Ms. Weinstein replied she thought they were owned by the City. Commissioner Quill asked if she had asked anyone if she could use the land for parking. Ms. Weinstein replied it was in her proposal, but she had not contacted anyone yet. Commissioner Quill asked if she had rectified the issue of where the vendors were going to parking. Ms. Weinstein said she had not. She did not want vehicles parked where the vendors would be. Commissioner Quill reiterated his questions of where vendors will park. Ms. Weinstein said she was hoping to have them park in the vacant lots across the street. Commissioner Quill said we are at the point where the Commission is preparing to approve the application but do not know where your vehicles are going to park. Ms. Weinstein said she will do what she needs to be done. Commissioner Quill suggested she go back out and figure that issue out, then come back to the Commission with the revised plan. Commissioner Wilkinson asked if she already had interest from any vendors for this project, and how many. Ms. Weinstein said she would hope that she would obtain 40. Commissioner Wilkinson asked if there was a way to determine if they would be selling merchandise conflicting with that offered in Old Town. Ms. Weinstein said she did not think they had anything conflicting. Commissioner Wilkinson said it sounded like she was supposing and they were looking for something specific. Ms. Weinstein asked if he could clarify what he was asking. She asked if clothing of any kind could be considered a conflict. Commissioner Wilkinson said if it is of a similar nature. He said it didn't appear people meandering at the school would draw people to Old Town. Ms. Weinstein said it would create an even P:AReDOrts - PC~2008~10-28-08\Final Minutes 10-14-08 tloc 10 Planning Commission Minutes October 14, 2008 larger retail situation. He had a concern about a conflict with similar merchandise in Old Town and pulling traffic away from those merchants. He said the Old Town merchants are paying month-to-month rent versus outside vendors showing up for one day on a weekend. He said it didn't sound like she was sure of a definite number of vendors and or their merchandise. Ms. Weinstein said she knew exactly what the merchandise was, but she has not been in a position to give any one a definite date since the venue has changed since September. Commissioner Quill asked staff how the City of Palm Desert keeps track of the C.O.D. sales tax. These vendors come from all over Southern California. Is that sales tax revenue being paid in their home town or is there a way that our code enforcement can ensure; 1) they are paying sales tax, and 2) the City will get their fair share. Planning Director Johnson said the memorandum distributed addresses some of the questions asked. He said there is a requirement all the vendors get a business license from the City prior to operation, and an additional provision they obtain a State Board of Equalization seller's permit. The permit has to be obtained and posted at their booths. That is the identification that they are approved for point of sale in La Quinta. We are conditioning this, and the previous applicant, that they report the sales that occur at that location. However, there is a matter of morals and trust in the fact that they will accurately report their sales. Commissioner Quill asked staff if they had a record of written permission from the School District. Staff replied they did. Commissioner Quill asked if staff was aware of the parking issue on the vacant lot across the street. Staff said they just noticed that the vacant lot was included in the business plan, however they were not sure what vacant lots she was referring to. There is on street parking provided across the street on the surface streets. Commissioner Quill asked if it was fair to burden the folks across the street with on a Saturday morning. Staff replied not necessarily, but there is no means to prevent it if somebody chose to do that. Commissioner Quill said if she is not providing parking opportunities, on site, we are causing that problem. Commissioner Quill said whether the vacant lot is owned by the City or not, there needs to be permission obtained for its use and it needs to be stabilized in such a way that it would not produce PM 10. Staff replied P~\ReVOrts - PC~2008'.10-28-08~Rnal Minutes 10-14-O8.dor, 1 j Planning Commission Minutes October 14, 2008 that was correct. If it is a dirt lot there is not the opportunity for that to be utilized without the property owner's permission, but also the City's permission because of the PM 10 concerns. Staff added the applicant's request was for 60 vendors and that could be scaled down due to parking needs. There is the potential to reduce the size of area to include the possibility of vendors parking on site. Bonnie Wall, Old Town retailer, gave an example of how the businesses in Old Town are held accountable to the State Board of Equalization versus accountability, or lack thereof, for outside vendors. Kay Wolff, 77-227 Calle Ensenada, La Quinta, CA 92253, said she had the same concerns as Commissioner Weber. La Quinta Arts Foundation has been in the business of bringing art to La Quinta; including their Art Under The Umbrellas events. She was concerned about the quality and type of merchandise this event would be bringing in as well as a conflict with the La Quinta Arts Foundation events and the artists exhibiting at those events. Also on certain dates the school parking lot is being utilized for Foundation events. Ms. Wolff was concerned that the applicant had never done any other show so there was no track record of her success. She commented on the fact that with a 501 c3 you have designated charities. She had some worries about the fact there were no designated charities. She suggested that the application be approved, for a very short term, to provide an opportunity to see if it has an impact on any of the other businesses and the Arts Foundation events. Commissioner Weber said he definitely had concerns on vendor parking as well as the possibility of creating a PM10 issue. He suggested an administrative review period of possibly 90 days, with tighter parameters than the usual use permit to address the type of vendors and their products. He was concerned about the non profit issues. He said he had questions that needed to be answered before moving forward. Commissioner Barrows gave some background on previous Village events of this type. She said, if this was the same type of event, she didn't have a problem with that type of concept, but did have concerns about the parking. Planning Director Johnson gave her a response on the review of this type of venue and said the Commission has an opportunity to impose a review of this permit. P,\ReUOrts - PC\2008` 10-28-08\F~nai Minutes 10-14-03.dor. 12 Planning Commission Minutes October 14, 2008 Commissioner Barrows referred back to Ms. Wolff's comments on the limitation of dates due to special events. Staff said a condition could be added to prohibit activity on certain dates. Commissioner Quill commented the idea of a flea market event could actually help the residents of La Quinta who are not as affluent. This area is the gateway to the Cove and it could be a positive. He was still concerned about parking and vendors and was not in favor of voting on this tonight. He also agreed the City needed to make sure this was not competing with other community events that are significant. Commissioner Quill suggested the Conditional Use Permit (CUP) be based upon a probationary period of a month, six weeks, or nine weeks and if things were not going well the permit could be revoked. Assistant City Attorney Houston said the conditional use permit is a property grant and the revocation becomes somewhat difficult. He said the better way to achieve that result is to have the term of the permit be limited, subject to renewal, and not have to worry about meeting standards. Commissioner Quill reiterated he wanted the parking issue figured out, who was going to receive the cash, and the types and conditions of the vendors on this list. Commissioner Wilkinson agreed with Commissioner Quill plus he was concerned about the conflict with the merchants of Old Town. Chairman Alderson also agreed, however, he was willing to concede there could be a conflict, but the draw of a larger crowd one day a week shouldn't be a problem for the Arts Under The Umbrellas event. Leslie Locken, Property Manager for Old Town La Quinta, said the merchants had been okay with a flea market, but it had not been clear, on the application, that this event was also an art show. She added this could take money away from the vendors who come in and sell art for the La Quinta Arts Foundation. The Foundation had no idea that this event, every Saturday, would be competing with their event. The applicant has not made it clear what the event is or whether it will compete with the Old Town merchants or the Foundation. P.1Repor[s - PC~2008V10-28-08\Finai Minutes 10-14-08.doc 13 Planning Commission Minutes October 14, 2008 Chairman Alderson said he was concerned about the effect of this market on the Art Under The Umbrellas event. He suggested they continue the matter until they obtain further information on the parking, the number and type of vendors, and any possible dust problems. There being no further questions, or public comment, Chairman Alderson closed the public participation portion of the meeting and opened the matter for Commission discussion. Assistant City Attorney Houston asked the Commissioners to clarify their point regarding the tax status of the operators and asked if that was part of the recommendation. Commissioner Quill said his request was a non profit has to serve a purpose of a non profit and he would like to understand what that purpose is. Assistant City Attorney Houston replied an organization can be a non profit without having obtained certification by the IRS that they are either tax exempt or one of the other entities that are awarded that kind of status. Typically a 501(c13 and 501(c)6, will have a determination letter and he explained the difference between the two. The applicant should have a letter from the IRS noting her status. Commissioner Barrows suggested people might be riding their bikes and walking and wanted to make sure they had appropriate facilities; such as a place for people to park bikes. Chairman Alderson was concerned that staff had all the recommendations the Commissioners had suggested. Staff replied they did and would work with the applicant between now and the next meeting. Chairman Alderson reopened the public hearing portion of the meeting. There was no further discussion, and it was moved and seconded by Commissioners Quill/Barrows to continue the Conditional Use Permit 2008-114 to the next Planning Commission meeting of October 28, 2008. Unanimously approved. P \Reports - PC~2008`.10-28-OS~Final Minutes 10-14-08.doc 14 Planning Commission Minutes October 14, 2008 C. Continued -Sign Application 2008-1281; a request of Highway One Eleven Partners, LLC for consideration of a Sign Program for Permanent Business Identification Signage for the Madison Square Commercial Retail Development, located on the northeast corner of Highway 11 1 and Dune Palms Road. Chairman Alderson opened the public hearing and asked for the staff report. Associate Planner Jay Wuu presented the information contained in the staff report, a copy of which is on file in the Planning Department. Commissioner Barrows asked about the location of the project and staff provided the information. Commissioner Barrows said she was concerned about a monument sign on the sidewalk, in this project, as well as the berm along that sidewalk. Staff said there were several issues and explained the options available to the Commission regarding approval. Commissioner Barrows asked for clarification of the TS1 sign and approval procedures. Staff explained the actions available for approval of the signs. Commissioner Weber said he was concerned about the sidewalks and how the safety aspect was critical. He was glad to be able to move forward and keep the project going without the concern of the monument sign location. He asked when the staff would be looking at the landscape and sidewalk. Staff said they did not have a current timeline. Commissioner Wilkinson asked about the sidewalk and the changes made by the City Council. Planning Director said it was discussed at the first meeting in August but the Planning Commission conditions still stood. No formal action was taken by Council. Commissioner Wilkinson asked about the landscaping. Staff explained the layout of the landscaping. Chairman Alderson asked staff about the revised footprint. Associate Planner Wuu pointed out the exhibits and sizes of the structures. Chairman Alderson asked about the revision of 250 square feet. Staff asked for clarification of what the Chairman was asking and reiterated P AReports - PC~2008~10-28-OSVf--anal Minutes 10-14-08 doc 15 Planning Commission Minutes October 14, 2008 what the applicant was requesting. Planning Director Johnson said the 250 square foot sign area was consistent with staff's recommendation and described what elevations were involved. The revised recommendation was in excess of the 144 square feet. That would be another eight or nine feet per sign. Staff gave the actual measurements of the revised sign request. He suggested Mr. Sobel might be able to expand upon that. There being no further questions of staff, Chairman Alderson asked if there were any applicant representatives or comments. Mr. Brad Sobel, 420 south Beverly Drive, Beverly Hills, CA, introduced himself and said he was speaking on behalf of the applicant. He said they did extensive revisions on the sidewalks and believed the Commission would be very happy with it. It is critical to get the sidewalks approved as it is holding up the grading permits. Those plans will be given to City staff as soon as possible. Commissioner Quill asked if one sidewalk, in one location, and was preventing them from moving ahead. Planning Director Johnson explained the role the sidewalk played in the issuance of permits. Commissioner Quill commented the applicant said that permit was holding up the grading. Mr. Sobel said he didn't mean the City was holding up the application. Chairman Alderson asked if the problem was on the applicant's side not the City's. Mr. Sobel explained his situation and said it was not the City holding him up. Mr. Sobel explained the L.A. Fitness sign revision. He said they have a new upscale club called the Signature Club. He described what the upscale club would include. Chairman Alderson asked if that was the entire club or just certain areas. Mr. Sobel said it would be the entire club. Mr. Sobel said the building was 4,200 square feet with the total interior square footage of 4,700 square feet. He described where the entrances were. P'Reports - PC`•2008•.10-28-OS`•Final Minutes 10-1408.doc ]( Planning Commission Minutes October 74, 2008 Chairman Alderson asked him to address the signs and not the building footprint. Mr. Sobel said the original application was five foot letters. He directed the Commissioners to page E3, showing four foot tall letters and 36 foot long signs (148 square feet total. The sign program on page E3 showed the scale of building versus the sign. He said this is not an overly egregious sign when you compare it to other signs in the area. He pointed out Option One which is actually bigger than what is proposed in the sign program and pointed out the differences between the original proposal and that given to the Commissioners. He said the whole sign has gotten smaller, but the square footage increased. Mr. Sobel directed the Commissioners to look at the elevation on Option One and compare that to the sign program on E3, south elevation on the bottom. He said this sign is actually smaller. The sign got smaller but has more square feet. Mr. Sobel went over the elevation of the building and the distance from the street versus the size of the sign. He pointed out other signs installed on Highway 1 1 1, as noted in the table presented on page 5 of the staff report. He noted other buildings off of Highway 111 have bigger signs that allowed for L.A. Fitness. He said this was a practical issue versus a letter of the law issue. It has to do with visibility from Highway 111. Mr. Sobel said L.A. Fitness appreciated the City's option to potentially have a third sign. He directed the Commissioners to Option Two and explained the scale and visibility. Mr. Sobel said they requested three monument signs and explained their location. Chairman Alderson had a question about Monument 3, the signs for In-N- Out burger, and all the monument signs. Mr. Sobel described which signs staff recommended, which the applicant was requesting and why. There being no applicant comments Chairman Alderson asked if there was any public comment. P~1Reports-PC~2008~10-28-08\Final Minutes 10-14-03.doc ]'] Planning Commission Minutes October 14, 2008 There being no further questions, or public comment, Chairman Alderson closed the public participation portion of the meeting and opened the matter for Commission discussion. Commissioner Quill said he was okay with everything the applicant requested and commented on the struggling economy and the need to work with retailers. Commissioner Wilkinson reiterated the recommendations made by staff versus the revision by the applicant. He did not have a problem with the applicant's recommendations or the monument signs. He said we have to allow the businesses more visibility. Commissioner Barrows said she was okay with the L.A. Fitness signs, and the approved monument signs. Commissioner Weber said he generally goes with staff, but looking at the applicant's revisions, the overall footprint of the sign, and how the visual impact is minimized, he didn't have a problem with the L.A. Fitness sign. He did have a problem with the In-N-Out sign. He thought they were excessive. He added was really looking forward to reviewing the landscaping and the sidewalk since they had received a lot of attention by the Mayor and the Council. He is looking forward to seeing the sidewalk moved away from Highway 111. Chairman Alderson spoke of how the Commission is constantly bombarded with sign applications where people ask for a lot more square footage, however he did agree with the applicant regarding the inclusion of three monuments and the need to help businesses. Commissioner Barrows asked for clarification of the staff's recommendations versus what the applicant presented in their revision. Planning Director Johnson gave an explanation of the recommendations versus the revisions. Mr. Sobel said the east side of the building has to do with a visibility issue versus the buildings in the next shopping center. That's why L.A. Fitness needed to put their sign on the top portion of the building so it would be visible over the other buildings. P:\Reports - PC\2008\10-23-08\Rnal Minutes 10-14-08.doc 1g Planning Commission Minutes October 14, 2008 Staff said they actually brought up the potential problem with the visibility with the other buildings. They did not agree nor recommend that a sign be placed over other buildings. Commissioner Wilkinson had questions about the height which staff answered. Commissioner Wilkinson agreed with staff on moving the L.A. Fitness sign to the lower fascia. Commissioner Weber said if the sign was moved down to that location the size would come into question as 100 feet might dominate that one portion of the building. Mr. Sobel said that side of the building is the largest portion of the building and there is no rotunda. Chairman Alderson said the point was it could be lowered as staff recommended. Commissioner Barrows said she would approve the application subject to conditions with items numbered one 12 signs no larger than 158 square feet, and two (elevations of signs be as described by staff). There was no further discussion, and it was moved and seconded by Commissioners Barrows/Quill to approve Minute Motion 2008-016 recommending approval of Sign Application 2008-1281 as recommended by staff, with the exception of Building Three (L.A. Fitness) plans, and the number of monument signs (from two to three) which were approved as submitted by the applicant, prior to the meeting. Unanimously approved. VI. BUSINESS ITEMS: None VII. CORRESPONDENCE AND WRITTEN MATERIAL: Material was distributed on "The Complete Streets Act becomes California Law". Material related to updates to city and county general plans related to traffic circulation and the accommodation of the needs of bicyclists, pedestrians and transit riders, as well as motorists. P:\Reports - PC\200810-28-08~Fnal Minutes 10-14-08 doc 19 Planning Commission Minutes October 14, 2008 VIII. COMMISSIONER ITEMS: Commissioner Weber gave a report on the City Council Meeting of October 7, 2008. Commissioner Wilkinson is scheduled to present the next Council report. Commissioner Quill gave some information on building homes in the present economic state; using the example of KB Homes Commissioner Wilkinson asked about the additional Annexation fees. Chairman Alderson commented on the upcoming Ethics Training. Assistant City Attorney Houston said Commissioners could attend in person or do on-line training. He added ethics training received would satisfy AB1234 requirements. If you attend in person you will receive a certificate. Commissioner Quill gave information on the Coachella Valley Bike Community Trails. He said they are just in the process of finishing up a power point on regional trails plan and asked if he would make a sample presentation at the Commission's November 12, 2008, meeting. He offered to have a question and answer session after the presentation. Planning Director Johnson asked if it was just an informational item, or in support of advocacy. If it was just informational, it could be agendized as a Commissioners' Item. The Commissioners agreed it would not be a problem. IX: DIRECTOR ITEMS: Planning Director Johnson gave information, in response to a previous question from Commissioner Wilkinson on a memo which was distributed to the Commissioners regarding City Code requirements for the use of Smart Controllers as requested in the September 23, 2008, meeting. Staff suggested it be brought up at a future meeting to answer any questions. Discussion of the November 25, 2008, Joint Council Meeting. A suggested agenda item was the Whitewater Trail with an opportunity for dialogue. Staff asked if the Commissioners had additional items to let them know. Commissioner Barrows asked if it was still 5:00 . Staff said yes. Commissioner Barrows said she would then be unable to attend the Joint Meeting. Planning Director Johnson made the comment, in response to the decision made on the signage, staff does take a conservative position regarding allowed P:\Reports - PC~2008\10-28-08\Fnal Mmu[es 10-14-OS.dor, 20 Planning Commission Minutes October 14, 2008 signage unless directed by the Planning Commission. Staff has been consistently taking a conservative position when applicants inquire because historically it has been the Planning Commission's stance to take a conservative position. He said unless the Planning Commission directs staff otherwise, they will continue to take such a conservative stance. More often than not applicants come in requesting significantly larger signs. He wanted staff's position confirmed. Chairman Alderson said he appreciated the viewpoint taken by staff. Commissioner Quill concurred with staff's position. He said the staff needed to take a conservative position, and then the Planning Commission can make any adjustments. Staff replied the Commission does have that discretion, and added they would rather set it up so that the Planning Commission makes the decision and staff does not encourage larger signs. X. ADJOURNMENT: There being no further business, it was moved and seconded by Commissioners Barrows/Wilkins to adjourn this regular meeting of the Planning Commission to the next regular meeting to be held on October 28, 2008. This regular meeting was adjourned at 10:04 p.m. on October 14, 2008. Respectfully submitted, . ~~i~~~ W Carolyn ~/alker, Executive Secretary City of La Quinta, California P:AReports - PCA2008`,10-28-08\Fnal Mmutns 10-1405 doc 21