APPMIN 12 04 1995ART IN PUBLIC PLACES COMMISSION
MEETING MINUTES
LA QUINTA CITY HALL -SESSION ROOM
DECEMBER 4, 1995
The regular meeting of the Art in Public Places Commission was called to order at 3 aJR P.M. by
Chairman Nard.
I. ROLL CALL
COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Commissioners Michelle Klein, Elaine Keynolds,
Rosita Shamis, Carolyn Lair, and Chairman Nancy
Nard and Council Member Stan Sniff. Co~runissioner
Walling arrived late. It was moved and seconded by
Commissioners Lair/Klein to excuse Commissioner
Kennedy. Unanimously approved.
STAFF PRESENT: Community Development Director Jerry Herman and Executive
Secretary Betty Sawyer
II. CONSENT CALENDAR
A. Minutes: Chairman Nard asked that the Minutes of November 6, be corrected to
show Council Member Stan "Sniff' was in attendance. There being no further
corrections, it was moved and seconded by Commissioners Reynolds./Klein to
approve ttre minutes as corrected. Unanimously approved.
B. Financial Statement: Commissioner Lair asked staff to review the statement. There
being no changes, it was moved and seconded by Commissioners Klein/Lair to
approve the Financial Statement as submitted. Unanimously approved.
III. PUBLIC COMMENT -None
IV. BUSINESS SESSION
A. Chairman Nard informed the Commission that the three finalists for the: La Quinta
Village Retention Basin Project would be presenting their proposals.
Steve Rieman - La Ouinta's Solar Sculpture. "A Season Tracker". Mr.
Rieman gave a presentation of his proposed artwork. He stated the project
is like a sun dial in that it tells the time of year. The element casts a shadow
at the various times of the year. His first design had a series of berms for the
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December 4, 1995
grass surrounding the basin. This design has more concrete at the bottom of
the basin. Volcanic stone, surrounding the pad, will collect thie nuisance
water. The 36-foot colored concrete pad is to resemble the native terrain.
Markers are made of steel and bolted into place. The sculpture is a 20-foot
tall oxidized and coated with steel structured. There will also be six areas for
planting of indigenous plants. The second proposal would not be terraced but
would have concrete curbing. The elements as proposed are t:o imply to
others that we are sensitive to our environment by symbolizing the desert.
The sculpture provides an educational opportunity for local students as well
as reminding the community of those who lived in this area in tlhe past and
that these people used the "season time" and not the "clock time".
Mr. Rieman went on to address the areas the Commission asked questions
about.
* The height of the structure is 20-feet. The piece will be visible from
the north bound lane of Washington and west bound lane of'Tampico.
* The art piece will draw attention to itself as it stands alone; and apart.
The difference from the current streetscape would make it stand out.
* It is a unique and individual piece that was designed specifically for
this area and should not be confused with any other work.
* The water run-off would not cause any damage to the piece. The
piece may be submerged, but in speaking to the Public Works
Department, the pump to be installed would begin to eliiminate the
water immediately and there should be no standing water.
a. Commissioner Reynolds asked if mud did cover the pad could it be
washed off. Mr. Rieman stated it could be washed off and would
probably add to the aging process
b. Commissioner Shamis asked if the platform could be raised so that
the water would not disturb the platform. Mr. Rieman stated it could
be raised but he would refer the question to staff. Community
Development Director Jerry Herman stated the platform cocdd not be
raised as it would displace the retention water. Discussion followed
regarding the problems with raising the platform.
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Art in Public Places Minu[es
December 4, 1995
c. Commissioner Shamis asked why Mr. Rieman had submitted a
second option showing no terracing of the basin sides. 1\Qr. Rieman
stated this was only presented as an option. The terracing oi'the sides
of the basin could be a consideration in the cost.
d. Commissioner Lair asked if the storm drain pipe would be designed
or left as designed. Mr. Rieman stated he had discussed tkcis with the
Public Works Department and there was a possibility of lowering the
pipe and making it less obtrusive.
e. Commissioner Klein asked how hot the sculpture would get in the
summer. Mr. Rieman stated it would get hot.
f Commissioner Lair asked if the plant material were specific and
indigenous to the area and having some meaning. Mr. Rieman stated
he would use the indigenous plant material to symbolize the
untouched desert to bring the plants to the public's attention.
g. Commissioner Shamis asked if a plaque could be installed to explain
the purpose of the structure. Mr. Rieman stated this was possible and
it could be made a part of the project to explain the piece and how it
works.
h. Commissioner Reynolds asked if the tiers would be constructed in
such a way as to allow gatherings and seating. Mr. Rieman stated this
was possible and it could be used as a place to have lunch.
I. Commissioner Lair asked Mr. Rieman to explain what could be
learned from this piece. Mr. Rieman stated he felt it would cause
people to think of the people that were here originally. T:he diagram
on the structure would show how the angle of the sun does change
and seasons can be determined from this. It would be sirnilar to a
short hike into the foothills to see the elements that exist d~ create the
hills/mountains.
j. Commissioner Shamis asked how the restaurant additions could be
balanced between the two. Mr Rieman stated he felt the two could be
integrated into the site.
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December 4, 1995
k. Commissioner Shamir asked what the colors of the concrete would
be. Mr. Rieman stated the colors would be shades of tan. and beige.
He was considering adding a colored aggregate that would be
sandblast at a later date to expose the colored aggregate.
1. Commissioner Lair asked if the current budget would cover all the
costs. Mr. Rieman stated the current budget would cover the cost of
the sculpture only. Commissioner Lair asked what Mr. Rieman
thought the estimates would be for the platform and terracing. Mr.
Rieman stated he did not have those figures at this time, however he
would be willing to make quotes if he were given the contract.
m. Commissioner Reynolds asked what the terracing would cost. Mr.
Rieman stated that was unknown at this time. Cormnissioner
Reynolds asked Mr. Rieman if he had done this type of project
before. Mr. Rieman stated he had not done this exact sculpture
before, but he had done all the elements in one way or another before.
n. Commissioner Shamir asked if the design he was submitting was an
original and Mr. Rieman stated it was and it was designed specific to
this site.
o. Commissioner Reynolds asked if Mr. Rieman had any estimates as
to the costs. Mr. Rieman stated that the proposal before the
Commission was a conceptual design only. If selected he would
come back to the Commission at a later date with the exact figures.
o. Commissioner Klein asked Mr. Rieman if a person was driving by,
where would the artwork catch their eye. Mr. Rieman stated they
would be able to see the base of the sculpture from the centerline of
the street.
p. Council Member Stan Sniff stated his concern about the budget creep.
If the sculpture is the only part of that budget, then the remainder is
a concem as it would have to go back to Council at some risk. Will
the excess water damage or stain the concrete? Runoff water is very
dirty with numerous residues that could be harmful. Those viewing
from the street should not have to strain to see the artwork:. It should
be seen easily. Mr. Rieman commented that he felt the artwork
would be easily seen. Twenty feet is a substantial height :md being
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December 4, 1995
that the art piece is so different the piece itself will make it stand out.
q. Council Member Stan Sniff asked where the plants would be planted.
Mr. Rieman stated they would be planted at several locations in the
basin. Council Member Sniff asked how additional plants could be
planted at a later date. Mr. Rieman stated he had not anticipated any
additional plants.
r. Council Member Sniff asked if it would be easier to lower tkte ground
around the platform to raise it out of any potential water. 'Phis would
maintain the maximum amount of volume that would be required.
Mr. Rieman stated that some of that would happen naturally.
s. Council Member Sniff asked if there would be any lighting as it does
get dark and the artwork should be seen. He felt the lighting would
enhance the structure to give it visibility at night so it would not
appear to be so stark and bright. The height of the structure will
make it 14-feet above the ground level. Color is an important aspect
of the artwork and he would suggest color be used in the terracing
that would draw to the center piece. The sculpture needs to be framed
to set it apart.
t. Council Member Sniff asked how well it would function with the
pump. There needs to be a collection portion that the water can flow
into and be pumped out of Mr. Rieman stated he had spoken with
the Public Works Department regarding the placement of the
pumping equipment and they stated there would be various channels
to allow the water to flow through to reach the pump.
u. Council Member Sniff asked what the sculpture would be made of -
what materials would be used. Mr. Rieman stated it would be
constructed of 1/4-inch oxidized steel.
v. Commissioner Shamis asked how the sculpture would. age. Mr.
Rieman stated it would age to a color similar to the natural
landscaping -orange.
w. Council Member Sniff asked how eye catching the piece would be
from the street. It needs to grab the eye and color does this. Mr.
Rieman stated color is a powerful tool to be used and he could add
color in the outside area.
x. Commissioner Shamis asked what color would be used :in the rock.
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December 4, 1995
Commissioner Lair stated it was intended to be black. Mr. Rieman
stated it was to be volcanic rock, which is black. Discussion
continued regarding the different rock materials.
y. Commissioner Lair asked if Mr. Rieman expected the residents to
walk into the basin. Mr. Rieman stated he envisioned this.
z. Council Member Sniff stated there needed to be a pathway to the
platform for people to walk on so there would be no injuries. Mr.
Rieman stated stepping stones would be effective.
aa. There being no further questions, Chairman Nard thanked Mr.
Rieman for his presentation and stated the Commission would inform
him of their decision. Ruth Rieman asked if she could address the
Commission. She stated the art piece could be a dynamic situation
if the City had historical dates that could be placed into the sculpture
to act as a historical record. There could also be an interpretive
brochure in the City Hall to invite participation with the sculpture.
A teacher could use several elements to address the piece.
Interpretive value grows with time.
bb. Commissioner Lair stated the piece, without any interpretation, is
stark. Would you consider having any texture or relief to soften the
look? Mr. Rieman stated there were several options that could be
considered without any difficulty and he would be open to any
suggestions.
cc. Commissioner Shamir asked if there would be any community
involvement. Mr. Rieman stated he had worked with the employees
from the City of Palm Desert and utilized objects from the City to
create a 16-foot design. A similar idea could be done here to help
with the costs.
dd. Mr. Rieman went on to state that the proposal called for three
markers, but others could be added to mark the City's historical dates.
ee. Council Member Sniff asked if the metal structure could have a base
of tile. Mr. Rieman stated this could work. Council Member Sniff
asked if there was a possibility of the arch having file at the base,
about 3-4 feet, where tiles could be placed having other significant
dates, such as historical dates.
f£ Commissioner Klein asked if colored file could be used on the base.
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The tiles could be sold to the public. Commissioner Shamis
suggested they might be installed on the steps and consist of
children's artwork. Mr. Rieman stated tiles were a good point, but
there could be a layout problem as the sculpture does taper. If silken
bronze could be used it would eliminate the layout problem.
gg. Commissioner Shamis commented that the beauty of the sculpture
was its simplicity. Mr. Rieman stated he was trying to sa}~ this was
a very special place.
hh. Commissioner Lair asked if Mr. Rieman had worked on any other
city projects. Mr. Rieman stated that besides the City of Palm Desert,
he was working with Copper Mountain, as well as Joshua Tree
Monument.
ii. Chairman Nazd thanked Mr. Rieman for his time.
Commissioners took a ten minute break.
2. Barbara Grygutis -Land Massing.
a. The applicant was unable to attend the meeting so a conference
telephone call was made to her studio. Staff introduced M .Grygutis
to the Commission and asked her to present her proposal.
b. Ms. Grygutis stated her proposal was to put grass in the whole area
to hold the dirt. The bottom would irrigate itself and the grass would
take care of the dirt. Aland mass consisting of a bridge constructed
out of stone would be built extending out into the basin from the
fountain at the restaurant. It would allow seating and serve as a
visual element. It is more of a horizontal piece rather than a vertical.
c. Commissioner Lair asked if the concept for the stone work design
was to come off Calle Tampico side of the basin. Ms. Grygutis stated
the drawings she received of the site, did not clearly define all of the
site locations and this was a concept design utilizing lard massing
concepts.
d. Commissioner Lair asked if the stonework was to create ;seating and
a viewing room. Ms. Grygutis stated the colors in the stone would go
from light on the wall to a darker and darker color.
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December 4, 1995
e. Commissioner Lair asked what type of stones would be used. Ms.
Grygutis stated she anticipated sandstone until she was able to see
what is natural to the area. A lot of the proposal depends on the
budget. Sandstone is comfortable and doesn't get as hot and
therefore could be used to sit on.
d. Commissioner Reynolds asked where the pump would be placed.
Ms. Grygutis stated she understood the pump could be moved and
those details could be worked out at a later date.
e. Chairman Nard asked if the proposal included any lighting. Ms.
Grygutis stated the budget at this point is prohibitive of I:hose kinds
of expenses.
f Community Development Director Jerry Herman asked Ms. Grygutis
what she would do if Funds were available. Ms. Grygutis; stated she
would place them on the perimeter of the wall to give arl outline of
the wall. They would shine from the bottom up.
g. Commissioner Lair asked if the stone work would be textured. Ms.
Grygutis stated it would be. Again, the budget is very limited.
h. Staff asked what would the lighting would cost. Ms. Grylutis stated
that was unknown at this point.
1. Council Member Stan Sniff commented that in order to produce
something substantial for this major corner that would be meaningful,
the object should include lighting. Council Member Sniff asked if
Ms. Grygutis had a concept of what should be done with the basin.
Ms. Grygutis stated that her initial approach was to work with the
restaurant since she had not seen the sight. The site needs a land
mass that connected with the corner; vertical off the peninsula with
columns of light perhaps. A steel mesh that could be seen through;
verticals made out of the transparent material with light shinning up.
j. Council Member Sniff suggested the columns have varying colors.
Ms. Grygutis stated this was possible, but she would riot want to
commit to such a design until she had seen the site. Public; art is built
into the context of the site. The project could include shaped columns
with lights built in. Council Member Sniff suggested the colors come
from within. Ms. Grygutis suggested that the basin be made deeper
to accommodate the land massing. Council Member Sniff suggested
a center landmass with a bridge leading over to it. This would retain
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December 4, 1995
the retention basin's purpose to hold the water. Ms. Grygutis stated
the bridge would need to be connected to the vertical piece to keep
from being so busy. The City wants simplicity. Council Member
Sniff stated land massing was a possibility with a vertical structure.
Ms. Grygutis stated it all comes down to budget.
k. Commissioner Lair asked how the artist would pull the community
into what is significant. Ms. Grygutis stated it all depended on what
direction the Commission wanted to go. There are certain things
about La Quinta that are known and other things unknown to her.
She would try to go into the community and gain an idea ttlat would
work and solicit ideas on what is available to work with. Council
Member Sniff stated there were foothills to the west and south with
varying colors that embrace this area that are extremely attractive.
Ms. Grygutis stated the natural environment is a good element to
work with as it is not political.
Council Member Sniff asked what it would take to get Ms. Grygutis
to see the site. Ms. Grygutis stated she could come fcrr one day.
Council Member Sniff asked if Ms. Grygutis would you be willing to
do this. Ms. Grygutis asked if the City would pay for tlhe airplane
ticket. Council Member Sniff stated this was a possibility, but the
Commission would first need to discuss and determine what they
wanted.
m. Commissioner Lair asked what Ms. Grygutis' availability was. Ms.
Grygutis stated she would be able to take one day to visit the site.
Council Member Sniff asked if Ms Grygutis was currently working
on a project. Ms. Grygutis stated she was working on several.
n. Chairman Nard asked if the mesh wiring was to be on the base, would
sandstone still be used for seating? Ms. Grygutis stated she would be
unable to say without seeing the site.
o. Council Member Sniff asked if Ms. Grygutis ever went over budget.
Ms. Grygutis stated she had never exceeded a budget. She went on
to state that on projects with smaller budgets, some of the entities
involved, help with the work to keep the cost down.
p. There being no further questions, Chairman Nard thanked Ms.
Grygutis for her time and said staff would be getting back with her.
3. Paul Berlier/Silva -An Olla Vessel
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a. Mr. Berlier distributed written answers to the questions raised by the
Commission at the previous meeting. Mr. Berlier stated he had
spoken with the developer of the site, Mr. Koenig, and he had agreed
to supply the water and electricity needed for the project at no cost to
the City. A licensed pool contractor would be hired to install the
water and electrical. Mr. Berlier stated the developer expressed his
concern that the drainage not be interfered with. He would therefore
offset his art piece so 'it would not be in the way of the drain. If
necessary he would plant oleanders. The unfinished smaller jug
would be finished to the ground and made of fiberglass.. The base
would be changed to a 12-inch steel pole sitting in a cradle and the
bottom of the lazge Olla would be at ground level. All the electrical
and water components would be hidden in the jug and t:he controls
would be installed by the restaurant.
b. Commissioner Walling asked if all this could be done within the
budget. Mr. Berlier stated the primary structures could and he went
on to show slides of the proposed changes.
Commissioner Lair asked why the artist had changed from using the
acrylic instead of real water. Commissioner Walling explained this
was a request of the Commission.
d. Mr. Berlier asked if additional funding would be available for
fiberoptic lighting ($3600-$3800). He went on to describe the
lighting details. In addition, in speaking with the developer he had
stated lights would be important. The water system would be on a
timer with a check valve to control the water and two filters would be
utilized to filter out debris.
e. Council Member Stan Sniff asked how many gallons of water would
be pumped through. Mr. Berlier stated it would depend on the size
of the pump; whatever is needed to maintain the appropriate level of
the water. Council Member Sniff asked if the water would be
colored. Mr. Berlier stated they would be using water and would add
the lights if additional funds were available.
f Commissioner Lair asked Mr. Berlier to explain how the piping for
the water would not affect the look of the pot. Mr. Berlier explained
it would be installed on the inside of the pot the same slhape as the
pot.
Council Member Sniff asked if the basin was to be grass lined. Mr.
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Berlier stated it was the intention of the developer to plant grass. The
pump to be installed would be submersible and noiseless; once a year
the pump would need to be replaced. If a swimming pool pump was
used, it would last approximately 10-years.
h. Commissioner Walling asked if the center post holding the pots,
would be surrounded by oleanders. Mr. Berlier stated the post could
be given a powder coat and colored to blend into the surroundings.
Commissioner Lair asked how this project would relate 1:o the other
fountain located approximately ten feet away. Mr. Berlier stated he
thought it would blend very well. He then went on to explain the
filtering system.
j. Mr. Berlier stated the bottom end of the large pot that .faced the
restaurant was not intended to be solid. The design was Ito continue
down and be the entire pot.
k. Commissioner Klein asked how the fiberglass would be colored. Mr.
Berlier stated the fiberglass would be blown on, in an Indian design.
Commissioner Walling asked Mr. Berlier to explain what part of the
proposal was not included in the budget. Mr. Silva stated everything
in the proposal would be done for the budget amount except the
fiberoptic lighting.
m. Commissioner Walling asked if that included the foundation and
base. Mr. Berlier stated it was included, but he did not knew what the
powder coating cost would be.
n. Commissioner Lair stated she had not see any examples o f either Mr.
Berlier's or Mr. Silva's work that was of this size. Mr. Berlier stated
this was a site specific project. Mr. Silva further stated there were no
examples as this was the first time they had collaborated 1:ogether on
any project.
o. Commissioner Lair asked who would be doing the fabricating. Mr.
Berlier stated the actual cutting would be done by a specialist who
would be working from his design.
p. Commissioner Reynolds asked if children would be able 1:o climb on
the piece. Mr. Berlier explained they would have to shimmy up a 6-
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December 4, 1995
foot 3-inch pole just to get to the bottom of the pot. In addition all
the access doors to the equipment would be locked.
q. Commissioner Klein asked what the designs were on the pot. Mr.
Berlier stated they were all authentic designs taken from the local
Indians. They were designs from thunderbirds, Indian arrows, and
designs from other pots.
Commissioner Shamis questioned some of the lines in the pots and
discussion followed. Mr. Berlier stated the pots waufd be all
aluminum with a thin sheet of copper set on with epoxy to eliminate
any electrical problems. It would be brushed aluminum and would
age very well.
s. Commissioner Shamis asked if this process had been used before; the
epoxy with the copper and silver. She was concerned about
maintenance. Mr. Berlier stated it had been used several times over
the years, and would cause no maintenance problems. It would also
be patina treated.
t. Commissioner Walling asked if Mr. Berlier had considered
electrolysis. Mr. Berlier stated he had, but the epoxy was better.
u. Commissioner Lair stated she was concerned that there was an art
piece very similaz to this piece installed for the City of Pahn Desert.
Mr. Berlier stated he had no knowledge of Mr. Watling';s piece and
when he heard this he went to see the art piece. It was a basket, but
the design did not consist of any Indian designs. Mr. Watling had not
used any negative designs to create his design and he was. Mr.
Berlier then discussed the process of how his design had come to be
and the difference between the two pieces.
v. Chairman Nard thanked Mr. Berlier and Silva for their time and
presentation and informed them that staff would inform thern of their
decision.
4 Council Member Stan Sniff stated he would like to give Barbara Grygutis the
opportunity to see what she can do with the site before any final decision was
made. Her ideas and concepts need to be expanded. He felt it would be to
the City's advantage to pay for her plane fare to have her see the site.
5. Commissioner Reynolds stated she liked the way Ms. Grygutis arlchored her
piece to the restaurant to tie the project together.
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6. Council Member Sniff stated there was no way to do this within the budget
proposed. A quality project would require additional funds. Discussion
followed regarding the budget.
Commissioner Klein stated her concern about having a fountain when the
backdrop would be another fountain. Discussion followed regardinl; possible
design alternatives.
8. Commissioner Reynolds stated she thought it would be nice to place an Olla
somewhere in the City to resemble the City's Indian heritage.
9. Chairman Nard asked if all the members were in agreement to pay for Ms.
Grygutis to see the site firsthand and submit additional ideas based on her
original proposal. Following discussion, it was moved and seconded by
Commissioners Walling/Reynolds to pay the air fare for Barbara Grygutis to
visit the site to further explore her proposal. The trip was to be during the
month of December, 1995.
B. Authorization to spend up to $9,000 from the APP Fund for the insl:allation of
landscaping in the area surrounding the Civic Center art piece by Louis DeMartino.
Community Development Director Jerry Herman presented the information
contained in the staff report, a copy of which is on file in the Community
Development Department.
2. Commissioner Walling asked staff to clarify what expense vas for the
sprinkler system and what the landscaping costs were.
There being no further discussion, it was moved and seconded by
Commissioners Reynolds/Walling to recommend to the City Council the
expenditure of up to $9,000 to landscape the site for the Louis DeMartino
sculpture for the Civic Center.
C. Request from Harry S. Truman Elementary School for a location at the Civic Center
to display Children's Artwork.
Staff reviewed the request that had been received with the Conunission.
Members discussed possible location for the display.
2. Staff reminded the Commission of the problems that were faced before
regarding private individuals wanting to place art in the Civic Certter and the
Commission reviewed the comments made by the City Attorney.
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December 4, 1995
3. Following the discussion, it was determined that the west wall of the south
entrance across from the "Permanent Children's Artwork" within the City
Hall would be an appropriate site.
4. Community Development Director Jerry Herman stated this would have to
be approved by the City Council, subject to an opinion by legal counsel.
5. Commissioner Klein asked if this would be open to all schools. Staff stated
it would have to be.
6. Commissioner Walling asked if the school would determine which artwork
would be displayed. Community Development Director Jerry Herman stated
the City could open the wall up to each school for a certain period of time.
Discussion followed as to the method of determining what artwork, could be
selected.
Following the discussion, it was moved and seconded by Commissioner
Reynolds and seconded by Chairman Nard to recommend to the City Council
approval of a student art wall to be located on the west wall in the City Hall,
opposite the "Permanent Children's Art", to be utilized by all public schools,
on a rotating basis, for the display of Children's artwork, subject to approval
by the individual schools.
V. ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business it was moved and seconded by Commissioners Klein/Shamis to
adjourn this meeting of the Art in Public Places Commission to a regular meeting on January 8,
1996, at 3:00 P.M. This meeting of the Art in Public Places Commission was adjourned at 5:18
P.M. Unanimously approved.
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