2010 06 08 PC MinutesMINUTES
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
A regular meeting held at the La Quinta City Hall
78-495 Calle Tampico, La Quinta, CA
June 8, 2010 7:03 P.M.
CALL TO ORDER
A. A regular meeting of the La Quinta Planning Commission was called to
order at 7:03 p.m. by Chairman Alderson.
PRESENT: Commissioners Barrows, Weber (delayed arrivall,
Wilkinson, and Chairman Alderson.
ABSENT: Commissioner Quill
STAFF PRESENT: Planning Director Les Johnson, Planning Manager
David Sawyer, Principal Engineer Ed Wimmer,
Assistant Planner Eric Ceja, and Executive
Secretary Carolyn Walker.
II. PUBLIC COMMENT: None
III. CONFIRMATION OF THE AGENDA: confirmed
IV. CONSENT CALENDAR:
There being no comments, or suggestions, it was moved by Commissioners
Barrows/Wilkinson to approve the minutes of May 25, 2010 as submitted.
Unanimously approved.
V. PUBLIC HEARINGS: None
VI. BUSINESS ITEMS:
A. Right-Of-Way Vacation 2010-018; a request by City of La Quinta-
Public Works -for consideration of a proposed Right-Of-Way Vacation
of a 2,426 square foot portion of Avenida Ultimo located East of
Washington Street.
Principal Engineer Ed Wimmer presented the staff report, a copy of
which is on file in the Planning Department.
Planning Commission Minutes
June 8, 2010
Chairman Alderson asked if there were any questions of staff.
There being no questions of staff, and the applicant being the City of
La Quinta, Chairman Alderson asked if there was any public comment.
Mr. Leo Knasiak, 78515 Avenida Ultimo, La Quinta -stated he was in
favor of the vacation of the property. He had given Chairman Alderson
a packet of information, prior to the meeting (a copy of which is on
file in the Planning Department) and wanted to be assured that the
information he provided was taken irito consideration regarding what
happens to the property once the vacation was completed. He pointed
out Council Resolution 91-115, Condition of Approval No. 6, which
mentions the addition of a gate at the west end of Avenida Ultimo, if
the City vacates the last 70 to 90 feet of the street. He also
commented on the addition of a block wall and expressed the
necessity for its inclusion.
Chairman Alderson asked for clarification of the location.
Mr. Knasiak pointed to the area he was referring to and added there is
currently a gate on the south side of that area, but he recently
obtained the Council Resolution information which addressed
additional issues.
Chairman Alderson asked if the area was newly paved.
Mr. Knasiak said no, but it needed to be paved as there has been a
sink hole there which flooded each Spring. He stated he was just
asking that the whole area be cleaned up and made safe for the
residents living in the area. He then suggested motion detector lights
could be put on the existing fence and explained his concerns about
safety in the area.
(Commissioner Weber entered the meeting at 7:14 p.m.).
Chairman Alderson asked where the driveways were for both the
properties to the right and left, which staff pointed out.
Commissioner Wilkinson asked 1) if the Resort was the owner of the
property, 2) had they had any conversations with the City about using
that property as a storage yard, and 3) did they have plans for adding
a gate.
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Principal Engineer Wimmer responded that the preliminary title report
they received did not clearly show the current ownership, though it
was assumed the owner was the Resort. However, they were still
waiting for confirmation of the ownership from the title company. He
added that, on the assumption the Resort was the owner, the Public
Works Director had previously communicated with them several times,
requesting that they correct some of the items mentioned by Mr.
Knasiak.
Chairman Alderson re-stated the present issue before the Commission
and noted the conditions presented by Mr. Knasiak were placed by a
previous Planning Commission. He commented on them and said they
could continue the item to investigate them further.
Mr. Knasiak said he was in favor of the vacation and did not want it
continued.
Chairman Alderson referenced staff's previous comments on working
with the Resort on the earlier conditions and suggested the
Commission discuss and vote on the Street Vacation currently before
them.
Planning Director Johnson followed up on Principal Engineer Wimmer's
comments on ownership stating there had been a myriad of
ownerships, but they expected the property would be transferred fully
to the Resort.
There being no further questions, or public comment, Chairman
Alderson opened the matter for Commission discussion and closed the
public hearing.
Commissioner Barrows expressed her concern about adding some
landscaping just to screen off the area a bit more. Staff responded if
the property was not going to be absorbed into the storage yard, and
would remain open, there could be discussion about including some
low maintenance landscape. However, they would first have to
research the condition Mr. Knasiak had mentioned.
Principal Engineer Wimmer said they had contacted the Coachella
Valley Water District, regarding interest in keeping their easement.
They were very concerned about the possibility of planting an
overabundance of landscaping.
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Commissioner Weber asked about a clarification on reserving the
utility easement and staff commented the utilities are already there
and all they wanted was to have an easement there to protect their
utilities.
Commissioner Weber asked about moving the access point and the
possibility of a gate structure being added to deter graffiti and other
security issues. Planning Director Johnson responded that, if the
Resort expanded operations, the addition of a gate and proper
screening would have to be discussed.
General discussion followed on ownership, types of gates, fencing,
screening, inclusion of a wall, and reserving the easement.
Chairman Alderson reminded the Commissioners that the matter-at-
hand was to decide whether to recommend vacation or not and not
discussion of future possibilities. Council could impose conditions, if
they so desired.
Staff said they would certainly talk further with the owner to find out
more clearly what their intentions were, prior to this being introduced
to City Council.
Chairman Alderson asked if those discussions might dovetail with Mr.
Knasiak's concerns. Principal Engineer Wimmer said yes and also
clarified that the Planning Commission would not be the body that
actually vacated the property. They would be approving a General
Plan Conformance and providing a recommendation to the Council.
There being no further questions or discussion, it was moved and
seconded by Commissioners Wilkinson/Barrows to adopt Resolution
2010-018 recommending approval of Right-Of-Way Vacation 2010-
018 as submitted. AYES: Commissioners Barrows, Weber,
Wilkinson, and Chairman Alderson. NOES: None. ABSENT:
Commissioner Quill. ABSTAIN: None.
B. Consideration of Alternate Fencing Materials; a request by City of La
Quinta- Planning Department -for consideration as to whether to allow
sheet metal fencing as an alternate material for residential fences
located City-wide.
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Planning Director David Sawyer presented the staff report, a copy of
which is on file in the Planning Department.
Chairman Alderson asked if there were any questions of staff.
Commissioner Weber had a question about whether the examples
shown had been permitted. Staff responded they had not had an
opportunity to check on the examples, but would do a follow-up once
the Commission decided whether the material was acceptable or not.
Discussion followed regarding the examples shown, where they were
located, and which pictured the particular metal fencing currently
under discussion.
There being no further questions of staff, and the applicant being the
City of La Quinta, Chairman Alderson asked if there was any public
comment.
Mr. Leo Knasiak - 78-515 Avenida Ultimo, La Quinta -had some
questions on the alternate types of fencing. He asked about the
combination of materials; i.e., metal and wood together. He said he
did not have a problem with metal fencing if it was installed by a
fencing company. He was concerned about the residents, next to
these fences, being contacted. He said he hoped the neighbors'
concerns would be considered due to the amount of heat which would
be reflecting off this metal and into their yards. He then gave
examples of what happens when mixed media deteriorates; e.g.,
wood/metal. He asked the Commission to be very specific about how
this was worded.
Mr. Glen Chapman - 46-700 Cameo Palms Drive, La Quinta -stated
he was the resident cited for having a metal fence and the fencing
material he used was not a sheet metal material, but corrugated steel;
a galvanized material. He said it was actually used for siding, in
structural situations, and in roofing, with a lifespan of 50 years or
more. He gave examples of other cities allowing this metal for
residential use and said in some situations they do different techniques
of either painting or adding a patina effect to it. It is supportive and
structurally more sound than any kind of wood fencing, without the
drawbacks; i.e., sprinkler staining. He added it is used on a lot of
architectural restaurants; not just in Palm Springs, but also in La
Quinta (Amore Restaurant.
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Chairman Alderson asked which photo showed his fence. Mr.
Chapman pointed it out.
Mr. Chapman then distributed some photos of permitted fences in
other cities. IA copy is on file in the Planning Department.)
Commissioner Barrows asked Mr. Chapman to describe the vertical
post structure.
Mr. Chapman said the posts were 4 x 4 and 6 x 6 and were imbedded
two feet down. He added they were treated before they were
cemented in place.
Commissioner Barrows asked if the posts were made of wood. Mr.
Chapman said they were stained wood posts.
Commissioner Barrows asked if there was a finish on the steel. Mr.
Chapman said it was a galvanized finish with a sealer on it.
Commissioner Weber commented on the structural soundness of the
siding material secured with wooden posts. Mr. Chapman then
described the height of the fence (four feet) and the construction
methods used to build it.
Commissioner Wilkinson asked about the rail material behind the
fence. Mr. Chapman responded there were two stained and sealed
two-by-four wood rails (on endl; one at the bottom and one at the top.
Commissioner Wilkinson asked if this was 26 gauge material. Mr.
Chapman said yes.
Discussion followed regarding the compatibility of metal with the
fence land home) design, as well as further comment of metal fences
with wood posts.
There being no further questions, or public comment, Chairman
Alderson opened the matter for Commission discussion.
Commission discussion followed regarding the gauge, and how the
material affects the neighboring properties.
Staff advised the Commission they were to focus on two primary
questions: 1) did they find this material aesthetically acceptable, and
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21 if so, (with Commission guidance and direction) staff could address
the issue of how the Code should be written with regards to gauge or
construction. Staff also commented that the Commission could direct
staff to re-visit the issue and bring something back at a later date.
Commissioner Wilkinson commented on Mr. Chapman's fence being
already built, and if guidelines were adopted which specifically did not
allow metal fencing, could the Commission include an exception to the
rule.
Staff responded if the direction was given that it was not allowed then
Mr. Chapman would have to modify the fence accordingly. The
Municipal Code was actually quite definitive as to the type of fencing
that could be used and this one was not identified. Staff felt there
was a need to bring this forward to the Commission for consideration;
similar to the submission of vinyl fencing; which was approved as
allowable. Staff would move forward according to the Commission's
directive.
Commissioner Barrows stated she did not have any problems with the
aesthetics of this material. She did, however want to make sure that
some standards were provided; i.e., gauges and types of materials.
She remarked on Mr. Knasiak's comments on combining materials.
Commissioner Weber asked if staff was aware of any studies by
neighboring cities and their handling of this material. Staff had not
had an opportunity to check on any studies, had seen these fencing
materials used in several locations at residences in Palm Springs, but
did not know if they were permitted. Staff stated they could check if
it was the Commission's wish.
Commissioner Weber said his concerns were 1) whether this was
aesthetically appropriate, 2) the use of mixed media - wood
supporting metal, 31 the fact that the combination of masonry and
metal might work with specific limitations, and 41 he wanted more
information on what neighboring cities were allowing.
Commissioner Wilkinson was concerned about safety issues; i.e. nc
cap on the top of the Chapman's fence, and the heat/reflective issues.
Discussion followed regarding the cap, the sharp edge of the metal,
and the heat, reflective, and safety issues. The result being, if the
Commission was going to continue this item, staff would follow-up
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with the research
would be issued c
decision was made.
they had requested. A Code Enforcement stay
.n Mr. Chapman's fence, in the interim, until a
Comments then followed about the Commissioners' concerns
including glare, the need to have a finish on the metal, the aesthetics
of the metal, the safety of the product because of the heat and
sharpness, maintenance of the material, construction, mixed media,
adding a color or stain to the material, the possibility of including this
material in the "vinyl fencing" section of the code, and what will
happen to existing fencing if this use is denied:
Commissioner Weber then brought up the possibility of allowing this
material in limited applications, such as gates or access ways; if it is
not the primary material visible in a front yard. He referenced one of
the photos which had a metal (fence material) gate providing access
to a front yard.
Commissioner Barrows asked for clarification as to whether the
Commission's decision was for 1) either giving direction to staff or 2)
whether the Commission should explore this further or not. Staff
responded if the Commission chose not to explore it further that
choice would be considered as the Commission's direction that this
material would not be allowed.
Commissioner Wilkinson commented on the differences in styles and
how this material could be mixed with other materials. He commented
on some previous approvals for the Cove and asked Mr. Chapman
where his residence was.
Mr. Glen. Chapman - 46-700 Cameo Palms Drive, La Quinta said he
lived in the Highland Palms Community of about 80 homes. He then
commented on his receipt of a citation and read the Municipal Code
Section 9.6, regarding allowable fencing materials in a residential
district. His objective in using a metal fencing material was to have
something structurally sound and low in maintenance. He said this
material was allowed in Palm Springs and Palm Desert. He mentioned
he was a general contractor and then commented about visibility from
the street, some of his neighbors who were non-compliant, the reason
a cap was not included on his fence, and the potential of getting cut
from climbing the fence.
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Chairman Alderson asked if he was a contractor, why he put up a
fence without a permit. Mr. Chapman said, it was only four feet high
and he thought a permit was not needed. He acknowledged .he had
made a mistake in assuming that.
Commissioner Wilkinson said the fence, in the photo, looked taller
than four feet. Chairman Alderson agreed.
Mr. Chapman commented on the proper setbacks and explained the
fence height and its construction.
General discussion followed on various photos, the height of the
fence, a secondary driveway, and the gate materials.
Chairman Alderson said the Commission was not there to discuss
individual circumstances within that neighborhood but to determine
whether or not they should recommend the ability to use steel material
as a fencing material; wherein before it was not allowed, and under
what conditions would it be allowed.
Mr. Leo Knasiak 78515 Avenida Ultimo, La Quinta -commented on
how hot the metal fencing could get during our desert summers. He
gave an example of a small child getting burned on the metal fence
and the decision of who would be held liable.
Chairman Alderson declared the public hearing closed.
Commissioner Weber suggested the correct procedure would be for
staff to obtain any additional information needed. He also read the
portion of the Code dealing with "non-conforming" fences and said he
would consider making a motion having metal fencing be treated
similar to wood or vinyl fencing as noted under the appropriate section
of Code 9.60.030. The reference was noted on page 8 of the staff
report, page 2 of the Code. He suggested it would be appropriate to
consider pedestrian and driveway gates be made of metal.
Discussion followed about the metal fencing being treated the same as
vinyl fencing; being allowed in the rear and side yards, and in the front
yard as architectural features and/or gates.
Staff advised the Commission that the Code already permitted a metal
material to be used for vehicular driveway gates, but not pedestrian
gates. Staff then noted D1 (Page 8) -types of metal allowed.
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Discussion followed regarding the inclusion of pedestrian gates made
of metal.
Commissioner Wilkinson reiterated his concerns about the hove hot a
metal pedestrian gate could get.
Staff pointed out that the Code already allowed for ornamental iron
and tubular steel gates, and the risk would not be any greater with
this type of material versus those types of gates; either way, they
were both hot.
There being no further questions or discussion, it was moved and
seconded by Commissioner Weber/Chairman Alderson to recommend
modification of La Quinta Municipal Code Section 9.60.030 - Fences
and walls - as follows:
Section D. Gates
1. Materials. Gates shall be constructed of ornamental iron/tubular
steel, so/id meta/and/or wood...."
Section E. 1. Wood and Vinyl Fencing.
a. "...wood, so/id meta/, and vinyl or similar recycled fencing
materials are permitted in rear or interior side yards only, and
only if not visible from the street. Gates may be of wood of
so/id metal in any location provided they comply with the
standards of this section."
AYES: Commissioner Weber and Chairman Alderson. NOES:
Commissioners Barrows and Wilkinson. ABSENT: Commissioner
Quill. ABSTAIN: None. Motion Failed.
There being no further questions or discussion, it was moved and
seconded by Commissioners Wilkinson/Barrows recommending
continuation of this item to July 13, 2010 to allow staff time for
further research. AYES: Commissioners Barrows, Weber, and
Wilkinson. NOES: Chairman Alderson. ABSENT: Commissioner Quill.
ABSTAIN: None.
VII. CORRESPONDENCE AND WRITTEN MATERIAL: None
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VIII. COMMISSIONER ITEMS:
A. Commissioner Barrows gave a report on the City Council Meeting of
June 1, 2010. (A brief summary of the meeting was given followed
by discussion.)
B. Chairman Alderson noted Commissioner Quill was scheduled to report
back on the June 15, 2010, Council meeting and asked staff to inform
him of same.
C. Chairman Alderson noted the new Council Meeting Attendance List
was included in the packet.
D. Re-scheduled discussion regarding Commission Summer Meeting
Schedule concluded with a vote to go dark August 24, 2010.
IX: DIRECTOR ITEMS:
A. Director gave update on appointment of ALRC and HPC Members;
with discussion following.
X. ADJOURNMENT:
There being no further business, it was moved by Commissioners
Wilkinson/Weber to adjourn this regular meeting of the Planning Commission
to the next regular meeting to be held on July 13, 2010. (NOTE: June 22,
2010 meeting has been cancelledl• This regular meeting was adjourned at
8:37 p.m. on June 8, 2010.
Respectfully submitted,
~C ~ G~/~
Carolyn Vt7alker, Executive Secretary
City of La Quinta, California
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